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Change Meso-Up from being a party buff to a self buff

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by akashsky, Apr 18, 2021.

  1. whatdatoast
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    whatdatoast Windraider

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    Honestly, this wouldn't be a bad idea if they increased the range/damage of big bang/chain lightning/paralyze. Each skill has its own utility.

    For example, if you want to solo NTPQ, you already use all three skills depending on how many mobs are there. The problem with big bang is that the range is too small to really be useful. You literally have to be touching a mob for it to hit.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  2. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Yeah this can work but you'd have to give quite the massive buffs to those skills if you even want to consider using mages at all anymore. Just because we do bossing on them at things like Neo Tokyo doesn't mean it's great. the amount of funding we put in these chars is massive compared to what you'd have to put in any different class in order to get similar results.

    I honestly think people are overreacting massively on the forums and should try to enjoy the game a bit more as it is.

    And yes I'm a mage player so yes I am biased, but at least I have some knowledge on how mages play as opposed to some people.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Motto
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    Goes to show you haven't read the post
    Its a 25% exp nerf given you're casting every 15sec and not every single sec.
    Maps respawn mobs every 10 sec per cc (so cc1 spawns every xx:yy:01, cc2 at xx:yy:02 and so on) so at max, you'll be standing there for 5 secs not being able to cast ulti, where you could be using other skills.

    After any nerf the staff will decide to make, because let's face it.
    100% I bet mage skills will never be nerfed and what we will see is, in 2 to 4 major patches we will see a nerf to Ulu1 and Ulu2, maybe by spawn count or generally by decreasing its meso drops (unsure they will change drop tables tbh)

    And what will happen? The cycle repeats because the problem is not the maps, its the class.

    During the 5 seconds you can still hit mobs in other ways (to clear the platform where you stand from being hit because you're legit afking in one spot aka actually using the keyboard), now the problem stands that, with the 15sec CD you'll most likely need to aim at fixing
    1) Chain Lightning halving DMG per every mob
    2) Paralyze should work multi-mob (6 mobs) and not single target <–– Same with Angels Ray
    3) General Attack% increase to non-ulti skills
     
  4. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Yes I agree that IF staff wants to go this way you'd have to look at these skills in the way you're saying regardless of whether or not I am in favor of these changes (as that's irrelevant in my opinion).

    I don't know if the point about paralyze is doable in any possible way and perhaps would it render F/P too strong compared to I/L but I wouldn't know that for now.

    My reaction was more aimed as reply to Toast and in a general direction.
     
  5. Motto
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    Motto Skelegon

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    In terms of 4th job mobbing FP vs IL is interesting as per skills, IL is stronger atm because it has Chain Lightning (even if it sucks because of the halving dmg per mob hit) while FP has no mobbing skill

    (not accounting for Demons)
    And yes, one could account for Big Bang... but I've yet to see someone use it, or if I'm masochistic enough on my mages, to try putting some SPs to see how it works (given ML has a skill change for it)
    "Able to be fired while moving, jumping, and being damaged"

    The range, from what I see in ayumilove makes it appear to have almost the same range as a glorified ice strike hitting 5 mobs with 290%
    (doable 830tma to 2hit a Veetron, 1hit at 1270tma with elem. amp.)
     
  6. Rapskal
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    Rapskal Chronos

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    I feel like suggestions about nerfing mages aren't actually as relevant to this thread as you might think and belong somewhere else as they are just distracting from discussion about the suggested meso up change.
    The point of the thread is not so much to nerf mages but to combat the problem of the inflation likely to occur as a result of multi-maging strategies getting so much publicity.
     
    • Agree Agree x 8
  7. Jaynus
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    Jaynus Timer

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    But this thread is talking about meso up dou? Let's not go off tangent
     
  8. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Big bang is the highest dps-cleave for ice lightning mages at CWKPQ. (around 10m dpm vs 9-9.5m dpm for ice demon / chain lightning) - credits to whatdatoast ( I don't know how to tag people on forums)
     
  9. whatdatoast
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    whatdatoast Windraider

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    I've been testing out big bang recently cus it's a fun skill. At 1415 tma, I do around 70-80k with it. There are a few niche uses, when mobs are ice/lightning strong or immune (cwk mobs, NT). Also if you care about cleave dpm, but want even damage on all bosses (cwkpq), big bang is actually the best. On 3 cleave I get around 10m dpm (CL is 9.5, ice demon is 9m).

    CL is more of a utility skill for card hunting, when the map is flat, and bossing. I would say for actual 'training', it's only useful at road of regrets for mobbing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  10. Motto
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    Motto Skelegon

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    True, but sadly when a suggestion is made about changing another skill, because mages are involved, the discussion as such revolves around what is the problem of mages being made that break the game.

    As above.

    The systematic problem that yes, arose from the beginning of server is that well, we are allowed to multiclient (but not multi vote, that came in 2018, double check this thanks I'm not so keen on remembering all ML changes dates)
    So, from the beginning everyone could've started working forward for quad mage or duo mage for map abuse and such, but as far as I've read / tried to understand older discord chats its that, the meta wasn't there yet.

    The meta to duo mage most likely started being a reality in 2017-18 era while quad mage has been a new 2019-20 era.
    The economy is more stable and, as such, getting to lvl 12x by just buying leech is as easy as going to #leech and asking for lvl 40 - 120 packages (lmao)
    What this does is that, the endgamers just started farming meso on their single mage by selling services, funded a second mage (not really funded, but basically got it to lvl 13x, and give it a wand and some gear) and throw it in a map to 2 button gameplay (combo buff skill + ulti) to efficiently make meso.

    Now given the aim is to make meso the next thing one does is well... buy services to get lvl 40 - 77 (or 79) on a MU mule, which costs basically nothing in comparison to the hours needed to recuperate what has been invested in one.

    The issue that we see here is, especially with the suggestion firstly given by Akash is to just nerf the MU skill, which is, as per usual of the ML skill changes, a way to tangent off of mages and to touch / nerf something else, aka map nerfs or other-class nerfs.
    (I'm not sure if the SI fix is something that was accountable for mage "class"-related nerfs)

    Meso-up as a skill is good as it is, I'm maining a shadower now and tested out the gains given by and without MU on specific maps and I would say that, for whoever wants to play the game normally without opening 10 clients to operate maps as efficient as possible, the MU mules shouldn't be nerfed.
    Bystander 2client or 3client players (main + MU + HS mules) shouldn't be affected because of the elite 6+ client managers that are generating absurd amounts of mesos.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  11. Hiimalex
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    Hiimalex Slime

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    just nerf Shivering and the server is saved
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  12. Toon
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    Toon Capt. Latanica

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    old school maple has always been mage story, even before 4th job. Best money making option before 4th job was coolies as a priest with mesos up. After ultimates, mages started being the best call for leveling up your main. Changing ultimates by reducing cooldown or damage ruins completely the game identity. I choosed legends as it’s similar to what the original servers were. For sure some changes are good but changing mage meta doesn’t seem reasonable. The game is playable as attacker for fun. You don’t need leeching. You can even fond yourself though gachapon. But for sure, you won’t be able to min max things not having a mage and this is completely fair. People remember being NX hoes in GMS playing purely as an attacker and think that it should be easy like that here too. If you want to be on the top, you have to use the best farming class.
    Edit: if you want to make multimage farming harder, make it cap as 4 clients per IP. then, it’s not going to be possible to run many sweepers and then farmers gonna have to move their MU all around the map.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  13. yurain
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    yurain Windraider

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    I believe 90% of the mage dont duo/trio/quad/whatever their mage.

    Let's take the basic and most brain dead ulu2 as example for a SINGLE mage. (I might not be totally correct on this, but it shouldnt be far off)
    It is left rope ulti..wait a couple second for spawn....ulti again, then right rope ulti....wait a couple second for spawn.....ulti again, then go left.

    And you see how your so called 15s cooldown is going to destory all the single mage player?

    This thread is really focuing on the mutli client thing, instead of mage.

    This sounds good, because too much of anything spoils the fun :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. RemiIia
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    RemiIia Slimy

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    remove MU and as a compensation for MU removal give NLs kishin
    (yeah obviously more spawns for a single target class the better, makes sense~) and add wild, fury, and frenzy totems as a super duper ultra legendary status gachapon item. remove CD on heaven's hammer, 30 sec mage ult CDs, 2.5x % the mage ults , 300k dmg cap for mage ults.

    revamp gachapons to be like v.62 gms.
    inflation? what da, wth is that? just add a meso burn system, add more taxes.
    burn more mesos, new raw mesos minted end of the 24 hours but expire after a 7 day existience.
    (burn burn burn.) woke up with 12mil missing from your storage or inventory?
    WHELP, it looks like those 12mil were raw meso drops minted 7 days ago? (*shrug*)

    Yes, I'm joking
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  15. Motto
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    Motto Skelegon

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    During those 5 seconds you can use another skill to kill mobs, such as Big Bang or Chain Lightning (IL, but realistically better BB)
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  16. nomilk
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    nomilk Slime

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    Like a previous commenter said, there should be a reward for having more mages. Even in your examples, I could see people who currently do 4 mage Ulu 1 move to 2 channel/dungeon dual mage Ulu2. Dual mage Ulu2 is more efficient than solo mage Ulu2 but less efficient than quad mage Ulu1.

    With the current state of ML economy, it makes more sense to create mages instead of boss on attackers (especially if level 200).

    The inflation OP is referring to is a few select items (common gloves, white scrolls, etc), but I don't think there is an overall inflation problem in ML, but rather a crazy demand for certain items. Take a look at all weapons and skill books, the price has been drastically lowered over the past couple years thus lessening boss splits, making 'end game' that much harder to achieve. It has become so low, that people have been suggesting a price floor for skillbooks, this doesn't occur when there is inflation in an economy. With WS prices this high, people need mesos to complete their end game items. Even with the current meso generation, there has been actually detrimental impact to leech prices. Further nerfing meso generation will lead to a decrease in the already low leech prices while not fixing the demand for WS.

    TL;DR: The core issue isn't inflation due to meso-up, it is the high demand of certain items that is not able to be supported by the current supply.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  17. RemiIia
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    RemiIia Slimy

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    inflation on WS and CS?

    7-day expiration date, that will nose dive the price down.

    ws/cs hodlers get rekt! firesale
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  18. Voxtagrams
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    Voxtagrams Headless Horseman

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    The same as discord
    Screen Shot 2021-04-19 at 11.51.40 AM.png
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  20. Discor
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    it is such a silly thing and i get that it is a joke, but just imagine the prices on stuff if that happened. but realistically the barter system will take over and meso will be used for pots only.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

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