Making HP Washing Truly Optional - a Solution

The best part about washing a mage is that you can do so at any point and there's no point for which your character is ruined. You can just casually mp wash whenever you save up the nx. The problem with hp washing attackers is that there's this upfront cost of adding int, and gimping your character until 135/155. I like this solution because it removes the need to add base int, and allows you to wash as you play.

 

This idea has tremendous potential and I thoroughly agree. It solves many problems at a time by:
a) providing less washed attackers a chance to not get 1 shot-ted by HT levels (by my calculations, should rch around 8k HP which is reasonably close to the 9.5k HP threshold to survive legs damage)
b) At the same time it does not invalidate the hard work of other washed attackers because it still requires NX, albeit in a shorter time but at the same time does not give these attackers magical HP out of the blue without much effort. As a latter party myself, I am all for the suggestions to give these attackers a reasonable amount of HP, especially if they worked hard for it, ala tier 10 MB ring.

I also further agree with Motto that the critical mass should be shifted to 3rd job instead because that is really the tipping point level to be honest. I would further suggest that this has so much potential to make other aspects of the game more enjoyable. For instance, the daily quest can be an option of
1) killing the final boss of either of the PQs (EPQ,PPQ,OPQ,MPQ - depending on their level range) 3-5 times (could be shorter depending on what we want to achieve) or
2) killing a certain amount of mobs and making it spread across the whole ML world so that the travelling time + killing time will commensurate with 1).

Even so, I would prefer 1) being the "shorter" task because I am all for PQs. Further, it greatly boost the social aspect of the game. Those that partake in it should be rewarded somehow. At the same time, it will greatly boost the population count engaging in these PQs (which is struggling atm) and soon indirectly create groups that will progress together (and perhaps even reach end game bosses like HT together). Now how beautiful does that sound?

Thanks again OP for the detailed writeup, I just offer these small humble suggestions to buttress the other considerations to make these ideas amazing =)

 

I don't think the quest should be this long, not against bringing more people to PQs but a kill quest should suffice imo. It'd be cool if it was a random mob kill quest, that would work well with card hunting.
+1 to it being 3rd job. If it starts at 4th job the hp gain per day should be higher.

 

Sure that it doesn't have to be so long, I just didn't want to offend any heavy washers who'd argue that the quest is too short such that this will be dubbed as a "low effort" way to get more HP. Even so, its just an idea and perhaps great to offer a variety of 1) card hunting 2) PQ choices. I think 2-3 times for PQ is decent enough to balance all considerations (given its about 15-20 mins per runs).

 

Ok, I thought you were saying 3-5 runs of each of those 4 PQs per day. 2-3 PQs per day would not be bad at all.

 

I like the idea of PQs, but you'd need to add something that's available at all levels too. Otherwise you'd run out of options once you've outlvled that list of PQs and still have washing to do.

Edit:
And for the mob killing quest ideas I would personally suggest sticking to areas that you can get through the world tour NPC. Maybe you'd need to kill a pseudo-randomly determined type of mobs in each one. This avoids having to wait for boats to arrive and depart, something that would greatly (and unnecessarily) increase the time spent on the quest.

 

As a player who play here over 1,5 years
As one who have many accounts with NX to start a washed characters (1.7m ish NX)
As 30k warrior who washed his hp with 1.3m nx
And most important as one who had to berry his NL cause he couldn't play endgame content after lvl 155.
I must say, it's time.
It's time to change the meta.
We all know the story of starting new in maple after YEARS back. You are pretty much struggling with everything and hp wash not helping at all.
As one who played maple in 2006-2008 hp washing was never a thing.
I would just suggest to revert any kind of attack that higher than the character hp to 1-1 attack. For example-
Player A have 20k hp
Player B have 6k hp
Boss cast skill that attacks 18k hp.
Player A stays with 2k hp while Player B stays with 1mp 1hp.
This solution is so easy to do and will benefit the server in the long term.

 

I really like Sku's original post as it gives an excellent insight of why HP Washing can hinder things, but it's also an enormous challenge to balance HP Washing and there are a couple more problems I can add, based on what I observed.

One of the big problems already is Neckson letting this "HP Washing Glitch" continue back in 2008 - 2010 so they could earn that sweet money even though if you wanna say HP Washing is actually a bug. So there will already be quite a % of players here in the game, playing MapleLegends more or less knowing that washing will be involved, so for MapleLegends to deliver the most authentic Pre Big Bang experience as what the team's vision is, while there will also be the other group that don't know washing at all (myself included when I first played ML in 2017). But to nerf HP Washing will of course, would make the older players (or rather those who wash a lot) pretty unhappy since they spent a lot of time washing to that value, only for that to be ruined or to be done quicker - sort of like how Neckson used to make leveling up in MapleStory a challenging task and now you can do it much more and even in minutes, especially if you have Paid a lot of money. This could also ruin the authentic experience since MapleLegends would slowly go towards a No Washing Required server.

The Second problem I feel is, voting for AP Resets - MapleLegends is hosted out of passion and good will, without the primary motivation to make money unlike a full time business. Staff who truly care about the server (such as dear Kimmy) would want to ensure their efforts don't go to waste or failure -- they would want players to be enjoying themselves in what they created. In order for that to happen, MapleLegends needs to be known and be on the top or rather near the top in the Search Engines and that's mainly achieved by voting on sites like GTop, which currently is the most top place to check for MapleStory private servers. Should HP Washing Nerfs be introduced, it could hinder the voting and possible drop the vote commitment regular players want to do since, there won't be much motivation to vote if AP Reset requirements are lesser. No private server, regardless of the game it hosts can be invincible, just like how a game can either fail or be successful. So in a way, MapleLegends NEEDS more of these votes (and this is mainly because we vote for our AP Resets) so when they are known, more players will know such a server exists and would try. Not to mention, it's very natural that, a player who goes to GTop for the first time, will try the first server or highest rated server he/she sees, in most cases, it's MapleRoyals, before MapleLegends, unless they compared both servers to the most of details and pick which one they wanna commit playing PBB MapleStory at. To reduce the need of AP Resets in washing via voting, can induce reduced motivation for voting -- I remembered not feeling like voting anymore in 2018-2019 once I got to my MP Washing target on my first bishop since originally I wasn't committed to MapleLegends as much as I am. So you can may use me as an example of a really casual player back then.

The third thing is more of a hurdle or more of effort -- If every character get's so balanced, there would be less motivation for certain enthusiast players to play more or commit to making a really strong character - I also know I would feel so since especially I have a crazy washed character and I would honestly feel demoralized if something that took me such a really long time can now be achieved in a much shorter period of time and would feel like I wasted my time. While yes, enthusiast players on ML is sort of a niche amount, they need to be also thought about because, if not ML can potentially too get boring since, virtually everyone is the same. It's also kind of like in a MMO like World of Warcraft, not every player you meet has the best gear or is guaranteed to clear a dungeon or quest.

So in the end, this is again, an enormous challenge, because there will be for sure, pros and cons if the ML team decides to go a specific route because it's virtually impossible to split and unify all the possible fixes to this washing fiasco. Not to mention, it would be like MapleLegends completely changing their path after 6 years of following this with just some balances here and there, that would be like a good restaurant you always go to that has a favorite dish you'd always like to eat and then its different the next time you go there - it would be the most disappointing thing you would experience for sure.

To be fair, I did see some effort from the staff trying to do things (such as, more AP Resets in events, Vote Cash Drops) it's not a *big difference* but it's still an effort.

For me, I am a player who feels grateful MapleLegends exist because I don't have to pay a crap ton of money as much as I am supposed to back in 2008-2010, only for Neckson to change MapleStory so much and made what I possibly spent - $5000 look like $50 now. I personally would have been so disappointed if I did spend this money back then, as a kid and that would get me into addiction at such a young age. I do understand and don't fully disagree that yes, the waiting time on washing characters can be frustrating, but I kind of view MapleLegends as a long term game, similar to those *press and wait* games on mobile like Clash of Clans (though I stopped playing Clash of Clans LOL). Though yes, I kind of look forward if the ML Team can crack some sort of idea to help HP Washing, now that I feel this HP Washing challenge as I plan to start my first, properly done attacking class character, even despite having 1 million NX to go and some average washing gear.

 

HP Washing and the time gate of long term washing projects is a necessary 'evil' for a game like Maplestory. A large majority of people play this game because they have goals in mind, but the process involved in reaching a large goal takes a long time. People tend to quit once their goals have been met because they feel as if there is nothing left to do. It's a common psychological phenomenon.

With that said, speeding up the process is just as bad for the server in terms of retaining long-term players as it is keeping players that quit due to lack of motivation (don't want to wash, don't want to play int mules, don't want to play mage, etc.).

For example, if it took 1 month to get to level 200, how many people would continue to play this game much longer than a year? Likewise, if it took only half a year to get to end-game HP on a new account, how many people would continue to play and vote across multiple accounts?

Constantly catering to new players is fine if your turnover rate is healthy. However, there are signs that that hasn't been the case in Legends for awhile.

Edit:

Also, for the record, I find it funny how so many old players on this server still find ways to complain about washing as if their progress isn't gated by their own laziness. I started voting on a few, super sweaty washing accounts at the start of quarantine about a year ago, and they'll be done in a month or two. Washing goals are easier than any other goal in this game.

 

Really good suggestion. Maintains the effort required but lowers the barrier to entry and doesn't make anything obsolete.

 

Please dont make this thread disappear like the quest ring did both are amazing!!

 

Putting 1000 int in your character and leeching to lv 155 is not authentic maple lmao

This would still require AP resets, the quest would give you MP and you would need resets to put it into HP. It's interesting how this server advertises no V2W yet everyone is obligated to vote to "win" not on just one, but several accounts :S

This is such a poor comparison. This suggestion is so that people can actually play there character rather than leech the entire time. TBH, making a mage and leeching to 4th job is not much longer than actual training for most classes, and for others, leeching is even faster.

 

This is inevitable the case with the covid thing normalised, and everyone back to work/school/whatever mostly.
The active player's population will more like just regression back to the mean. I won't be surprise if the unique online player count when is almost the same as pre-covid, since everyone probably made a ton of mules during the past whole year, which bumped up the raw number you see.

I dont think this is "unhealthy" but just how the game is meant to be without some extreme external influences.

 

There is nothing stopping you from doing both simultaneously. You can make two accounts - one meant for a long term wash and another that you can play with no restraints for pure nostalgia. Once you have enough NX saved on the alt, you can start progressing it through leech while still playing your unwashed character.

The problem is not accessibility - this in itself is fully accessible already and many players are doing just that. The main problem is the willingness of new players to do anything that requires work to accomplish their goals. The information is readily available, and the optimized routes are laid out every time one of these HP washing threads pop up. However, there's always resistance because people are hooked on instant gratification and think they're entitled to immediate returns.

It has become normalized for people to use mages because it's efficient to do so both economically and time investment-wise. Nothing is stopping you from playing mageless. It'll just take longer.

__

The only valid argument for quest-based HP washing accessibility is for level 200s that had already capped any possibility for HP gain prior to release of new content like Pink Bean. To them, HP washing isn't even an option anymore, yet they're locked out of content.

Edit:

To add another point - even if this thread's suggestion was approved, I'd be curious to see the type of player who would actually take advantage of the implementations. Some people already complain about daily events being too grindy while others take advantage by grinding on 6 accounts to farm event AP resets. Even if this got implemented, I highly doubt that the first camp of players would make use of the dailies enough to make it more efficient than voting on daily NX.

And if it does get implemented, we'll start seeing more threads about how the HP washing quest takes too long and is too grindy.

 

+1 with my heart.

 

This suggestion has next to nothing to do with not voting for NX, it's about being able to play the character you want without leeching the whole time, what are you missing?
All you've been doing on this thread and many others is coming up with outrageous made-up scenarios as well as starting every statement with "some people this" and "some people that". Who are these "some people" and how are they relevant :/

 

If this HP progression was implemented and given to higher level players like -ovv suggested (maybe could start at lvl 180 instead of lvl 200) I think it would be the best middle ground for the server. The two things you need HP washing for in this server is NT and PB and those are not relevant until higher levels anyways. HT is completely doable without HP washing, you just can't start at 155. It can also make sure that those players who are already high level and gated out of content can get back in without an unreasonable amount of work (Check out Kalash's high level HP washing video for an example of how to do it)

As a side note:

While I'm all for thinking of ways to make HP washing truly optional, I can tell there are many people in this thread that have a lot of misconceptions about the current state of HP washing (as there are in every single HP washing thread) as seen by the above responses especially, but also by the OP. It does NOT take as long as people think and it does NOT require making a mage/buying expensive int gear/putting outrageous amounts of base int to leech yourself all the way up. Staff have given us many ways to get extra HP already. There are going to be a lot of new players looking at this thread thinking that they'll have to leech their way up so I just want to show them this is not the case. I did this in one of the many other HP washing threads but here it is again:
This originates from the information AioriaX provided:

9.4k HP is our target

Easy gears
lvl 200 NL no washing: 4843 HP (someone tell me if this number is wrong) + 1k HP MB ring + 300HP MoN + 300HP BF cape + 600HP pet gear + 100HP Ellin ring + ~200 HP event (usually even more) = 7343 HP with no washing. Lets also add a face for HP as we aren't min-maxing here and face accessory is a viable equip to switch out for HP: +120HP face accessory = 7463HP.

We need 1937 more HP to get to our goal, or 1292 MP. This will require 108 washes and require you to have 80 TOTAL int for 162 levels. Or 90 int for 144 levels. Or 100 int for 130 levels etc etc. It is an amount of int you will barely notice at higher levels, and an amount of int that can be reasonably done only through int gear.

For example let's say you shoot for 100 int for 130 levels. If you want to do PB at level 180, you'd need to start at lvl 50, and lets say you don't exactly have int gear, but you do have:
ZHelm: 13-17 int
Silver Dep Star: 5 int
Ellin Ring: 1 int
Slime Shoes: 0-2 int
So best case scenario you have 25 int in gear. You can get away with having 75 base int at level 50 only with items that most people at lvl 50 try and get anyways and are not specific to washing. Add on some very very cheap int gear/event rings if you want and you can lower that even more. In reality it will be even less, since you would be leveling with int from prior levels as you progressively add base int.
This amount is NOT detrimental to your gameplay and does NOT require you to leech whatsoever. If you want a good example to follow, you can check out GetSmoked's journal: a corsair who just reached lvl 200, had a small amount of base int, and did not leech.


"Best in slot"
lvl 200 NL no washing: 4843 HP + 1k HP MB ring + 300HP MoN + 300HP BF cape + 1050HP pet gear + 100HP Ellin ring + ~200 HP event + 210HP face accessory = 8003HP

We need 1397 more HP to get to our goal, or 932 MP. This will require 78 washes and require you to have 60 TOTAL int for 156 levels. Or 70 int for 132 levels. Or 80 int for 117 levels etc etc.

When I wrote this last time we didn't have the eye accessory HP scrolls that we do now, so the amount of int and washes needed is even less when those are used.

You can still play the game normally while barely washing to your end game target.
Instead of a year+ of voting, you're able to get enough NX in <=~3 months of pure voting (less with events that are literally giving you AP resets) and I doubt you'll get to the end game by then anyways.

 

I will have enough to NX to wash out 390 base int in about 2 months. This account was made less than a year ago as you can tell by the 353 vote streak. I didn't farm during events. I didn't do anything but vote on this account.

Most people aren't going to wash this heavily and won't need to.

If 1 year of voting is enough to make a sweaty ranged attacker, imagine how much less time is required to make one that will just meet the minimum hp threshold? Probably less than half a year.

The suggestions in this thread are calling for a 15-30 minute daily quest that you would have to repeat for 200 days in order to meet the minimum threshold.
Sure, you can do that, but there already are existing methods that will get you there faster.

 

I don't think you finished reading my post. I said this is an enormous challenge (or rather, it was just a general opinion and comment) because there will DEFINITELY be pros and cons if MapleLegends decides to take a certain path, being it a no wash route, nerfed washing or keeping the current system. I am just being neutral because I am a person who looks on the bright side/positive things and not coming to MapleLegends to make a quick n easy character like those high rate private servers back in 2008-2010. Did I also not mention that now I am understanding this HP Washing fiasco myself now that I plan to start one myself? I did not explicitly specify any direct solution to this problem.

And about your comment about "No Vote 2 Win", you can call it an obligation, but I am referring to problem #2 (or rather hurdle) in my post. MapleLegends requires support via voting because if this server does not have enough support via voting, the motivation to vote is less - take a look at servers that don't require washing at all and see the appeal to the crowd in general or voting, on Gtop, judging by the number of votes, assuming let's say the community state is equal as Legends. But how exactly this is Vote 2 Win is not as compared to when MapleLegends allowed you to purchase Gachapon with Vote Cash in 2017.

 

Buddy you've got 390 base INT and leeched the entire time, no kidding this is only taking you a year. Realistically newer players who dont have the means to do this and actually want to play their characters cap at 100-120ish INT at most and have to MP Wash a ton.