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Bring back the nostalgia /stop the loss of players /hp washing - the solution

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Magen, Dec 6, 2021.

  1. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    I think what WAS mentioned was that there are different rates/systems in place for different things (events vs grinding vs bosses vs gach vs whatever else there may be). What conditions cause lower drops has mostly been conjecture and not verified by staff at any point (I could be wrong).
     
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  2. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    ic, maybe it wasn't kimmy, but rather the community itself in the past, for I myself isn't very sure too after searching the forum. Did searched very deeply into Kimmy's opinion on and I couldn't find any ofher opinions or stance on HP Washing other than her stating that it is very difficult to make drastic changes due to the maturity of the server. Tho for some reason I have vague memories of Kimmy stating it, but yeah, I could be wrong.

    but yeah, I think that opinion was a few years back. if everyone is willing to completely remove HP washing, I'm down for that. Just ensure washed characters will receive some sort of compensation (probably using AP reset purchasing history)
     
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  3. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    At this point it might be easier to save the energy and do away with all of the random plastering of ideas to simply ask for everyone to be 30k/30k directly, as that's pretty well the direction these threads are going. It's never easy enough for some folks, and they continuously point to higher and higher HP thresholds as being "necessary" all without either understanding what the HP is for and without the willingness to put in the work to achieve that HP. These threads have really only gotten worse with age.
     
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  4. Davidk
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    Davidk Red Snail

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    100xkpq=one white scroll
    50xlpq= one white scroll
    And the PQs will be filled up quick
     
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  5. OP
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    Magen
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    Magen Selkie Jr.

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    I disagree with you on this, you are looking on things in a perspective of old player who has the utilities - as high lv mage / funding / gearing to open new character, but I ask you to think about it as a new player in this server, which you don't have any utilities in it- no chars/no funding/no friends - think about it like you are really fresh in this server, know no one and actually just started your maple journey.
    After you read that you'd need to wash to be able to play the game in some classes, what class would you choose? I bet no sair/bucc/thief. only choice u have left is mage / warrior.
    thinking of getting back to maple cause of the nostalgic memories (that i believe is for most of us), mage/warrior could not be fit to you. My point is, hp washing effects badly on your choice to create a class or even play the game.
    The suggestion is not about making HP wash a -no thing- (even though in my opinion its not necessary - voting can be achieve in diff ways but that's out of this scope), its about making the game playable for newbies.
    now-days its clear to see that most of the people here are old players, you can barely see new players cause the meta is so against them.
    The reason i believe there are some classes that you find hard to see in the game is because of the hp washing and I just wish it could be changed.
    lets talk about
    If you want to go high, for 30k hp, you'd still need the same amount of NX. that's why I really think this is a real solution thinking the bigger picture including the voting meta that can not be change - as the server rely on the vote to be top in GTOP.
    lets say you want to aim for 30k hp, you'd need to do the same INT base you'd do today and same amount of NX to be able to wash it all out, its getting harder and harder when you are level up and you would loss 10% of your strength if you still hold "washing point" so for low lv its no issue but lets say lv 16x would loss 16.x% of his range for it.

    Its getting way to much in the formulas and math can be hard to solve it so it'd be equivalent for every class.. I believe the solution of mine - as washing points takes in count everything without touching the formulas or thinking on balancing

    but not too difficult to the point that the game is unplayable - is the key for solving the lost of new players. whether my solution or yours.

    I just want to clear, this is not a thread of removing HP washing, its just on make the game playable for every class from the beginning till the end of it, as a new player, you'd still same amount of NX to get to your desire HP, and as some people say, if you wish to get to 30k hp you'd get the a bullet in your leg although it'd be smaller XatWink
     
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  6. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    I am probably the worst person to bring this point to because I know for a fact that it's possible to start a new ranged character with no funding and no leech and still reach HP goals for the end game, because that's exactly what I did using (by far) the worst 3rd job class, the Outlaw.

    I had a point to prove, mostly for these threads, so I made a covid character with a complete refresh, no gears, no funds, no using old characters, and no leech. I managed to make it to 117 before using his funds for leech(a mistake on my behalf, hadn't anticipated FoT to be so good for Outlaws, and could have done that 115-130 rather than 120-130), and after that I made it to 137 before deciding the experiment was over let him inherit my small empire as a new main.

    With that in mind, I can say with certainty that washing was never the main problem with playing a 3rd job ranged character, and no matter how you change the mechanics of HP Washing the server will still remain dead level 70-120 for ranged characters. Leech is by far the best and easiest option available, and looking at the damage differences between the classes only make that point more clear. You can give a 4 int outlaw an apple and I'm still not sure it can outperform a similarly leveled/geared I/L mage. And even then most folks will still leech the I/L Mage, because leeching is that powerful. I actively sought folks to train with for my Outlaw, and I could rarely find anyone. Ultimately, it doesn't matter whether you have 4 or 400 int, or if your class is actually balanced to be useful in 3rd job, leech is always the best option and will remain so as long as folks can simply pay ~160mil(maybe even less) to skip third job entirely.

    The baseline assumptions to this thread are flawed. People aren't going to play 3rd job no matter how it's changed, and even after doing a complete playthrough of third job from scratch I still wouldn't recommend any future ranged characters to actively train. It's better to save mesos and bypass it entirely. Folks aren't making 18k or 30k HP characters because they want to either, they do it simply because they want to, but that is a flaw in the game where it's as efficient to go for 30k HP as it is to go for 13k HP, as either way the path to that involves just to leech the whole way.
     
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  7. zeroxlr
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    zeroxlr Windraider

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    Of course! No one's likes to do math.
    • It's up to the ML Game Dev/Balance Team and the staff's decision of how they want to address the situation.

    Whether it's to provide additional stats as you've suggested, or just add in something easy like a ring.
    • It's easier to program in a new item (such as a ring), V.S. coding in new additional stat points every level for washing (nightmare for testing too)
    • The staff are hard working volunteers which we appreciate :heartbeat: very much!

    Maybe there's an easier way to implement, such as a generalized ring that doesn't need balancing?
    • A possible ring that can boost people who are washing = Quest Ring (but that's in another thread)
    I see that there's lots of hidden calculations in that solution of "washing points."

    Since I'm not smart, and need to see your proof and calculations of how you're coming up with those formulas would be nice to see it in something like an excel sheet, for each and every level.
    • Considerations:
    1. I see that mages are singled out (or "balanced for their class") by removing those "washing points" from TMA, although doing so would be the same as programming it for all the classes. Since coding 1 (mage), is the same as copy + editing (for each class).
    2. need to show proof of how you're formulating increases and decreases of corresponding stats + the percentages that are changed for the character that's being washed.

    The solution of Additional Stats is very very math heavy, and in need of showing proof of formulation.

    I'm interested in supporting your solution... but I cant seem to wrap my head around how you're coming up with those numbers, and assuming that it wouldnt be broken somewhere after testing and verification of codes IF it's implemented after all that work.
     
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  8. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Would you agree that requiring players to play through all stages of the game - 1st - 4th jobs - would add to class balance?
     
  9. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    the problem with such threads is that only people who remain speak up. those who left wont. ;)
     
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  10. zeroxlr
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    zeroxlr Windraider

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    Also those who dont use the forums wont either ;)
     
  11. Pundit
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    Pundit Pink Teddy

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    wipe the server
     
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  12. Discor
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    Discor Slimy

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    that's kind of extreme.....
    lets start with wealth distribution OnionF3
     
  13. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Ironman mode for fresh breath of game SlimeCool

    It'd be balanced with some tweaking to 3rd job, the chasms in DPS are just absurd. Hard classes should still remain hard though, but Paladin would probably be the clear winner for ranged DPS on an ironman character.
     
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  14. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    I was just commenting on how things were a couple years back, I have no comment on the proposal itself ;)
     
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  15. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Playing Maple without a Discord server would be peak nostalgia
     
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  16. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Make owls and smegas great again.
     
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  17. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    Alyosha alr quote a guide and proved that its viable to do what you want at its current state - provided u do no leeching
    https://forum.maplelegends.com/inde...ll-every-boss-on-your-ranged-character.39844/
     
  18. Eldric
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    Eldric Slime

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    As a person who opted to self-leech my ranged character, I completely agree on this point. At the end of the day, many active players are already at higher levels and instinctively, everyone wants to join an active community. No one wants to be stuck at lvl 70-120 for an extended period of time where people you meet come and go. I cannot imagine grinding through 70-120 on a ranged character, washed or not. With regards to nostalgia, I think this game was made at a time where we were younger and had all the time in the world to invest into a character. But now, many players are adults with jobs and commitments outside the game. Yes, we play when we can but we all know how valuable time is, so if our interest is in endgame content then there really is no point in playing the game sub-optimally at lower levels.

    Would I self-leech even if I played a character that did not need to be washed? Yes...
     
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  19. Maplemaple
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    Maplemaple Orange Mushroom

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    Maybe lowering the nx cost of ap resets itself could help alot instead of adding all the extra shit. Washing does take a life time and its not worth the investment for some ppl. Youre tryna play a game now but gotta look 1-3 years ahead like wtf LOL. I think theres more to it than just hp washing when it comes to loss of players though. It could simply be going back to real life or the market is just too pricey to keep playing. Imagine having to put in the extra effort prob triple or even more amount of work just to achieve a small part of the game. Even just thinking about it burns you out lmao its really not for everyone. There are many factors to why ppl quit but its agreeable that things are too complicated for an old ass 2d mushroom game. Just consumes too much time. Some ppl join to just wack shit and play but nope. Gotta wash, gotta get better gears and just the process of going through all that shit especially from scratch is just a waste of time for some ppl. Might as well do something more productive. Well it may not be the case for everyone, yes its doable for some, but also numbers dont lie. You can obviously see the decrease in population whenever you go vote on the website. Its hard to come up with a real solution. There may not even be one actually, but its not that hard to make things less difficult for no reason. Just lowering the ap reset cost itself would help alot
     
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  20. Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    I think people would play 3rd more if there was something like a questline to help get through it, especially the 100-120 portion. Something like Mushroom Kingdom could be backported and have its level adjusted, perhaps.
     
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