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C++'s Scroll Price Guide (AVG,STDDEV,MIN,MAX)

Discussion in 'Items & Mesos' started by C++, Jul 31, 2017.

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  1. xxinsanity2
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    xxinsanity2 Mano

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    Wheres the donate button
     
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  2. OP
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    C++ Mushmom

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  3. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    There have been some concerns that this guide is changing the market too much. I just want to leave a small message in regards of the concerns

    In end of day this very topic is a guide. A guide is not one you are forced to follow. Example, there's many bishop guides, but it doesn't mean you are forced to follow a specific one. A guide is there to help you, but if you believe you know better than the guide, you can follow your own path and do it the way you think is the best

    Market prices have always been a thing we are not associated with - simply because prices aren't an official thing, ever, and change everyday. Before PietyPiety became a staff member, there were 2 guides up, and people followed the one or the other.

    Because Piety became a staff member, he and I thought it would be okay to let his guide rest, since else people may think too much the prices are official because its been told by a staff member - which would not be true.

    Right now there's only 1 guide up - which is this one, so its pretty natural that people follow this and only this guide, which means if there's concerns and or people disagreeing how the guide is run - they can try run their own, and who knows if its more accurate people will follow yours instead.

    The end of story though is that we, staff, simply do not associate with market prices, since there's no such thing as an 'official price' of an item. Its up to the seller to sell with how much they want to sell their item, and up to the buyer if they think their mesos is worth what they buy.

    With that said, nothing will happen to the guide and following it is up to the seller, and buyer.
     
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  4. xNivx
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    xNivx Headless Horseman

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    What more these are the prices that C++C++ sees around fm stores sold and unsold every day, its not like he's stating what the price is precisely
     
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  5. Sucre
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    Sucre Zakum

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    It's not about that, but about people ignoring everything the guide says except the prices listed
     
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  6. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    i think PietyPiety Guide was more efficient and more organized. sorry not sorry
     
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  7. Luscious
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    Luscious Mr. Anchor

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    Maybe a small change would be to put the list images in a spoiler and make the IMPORTANT text larger. Or maybe make the user sign a ToS.
     
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  8. nanop33
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    nanop33 Capt. Latanica

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    The issue with the approach is that there's not really a reliable way to record the prices of sold items when the shop owner collects before OP has a chance to go through the FM yet.

    IMO the methodology is also fundamentally flawed. Extreme outliers can be manually filtered out, but how do you differentiate between something is slightly under/overpriced and something that's indicative of market movement? Incorporating everything into mean will drive it up day after day especially if a large portion of the data is from unsold items. Newer players/people not too knowledgeable on current prices will follow the guide and the slight overprices will increase and then the guide prices will increase and we've come full circle.

    EDIT: another thing is that all of the data is from Ch1. Chs3-9 don't have a lot of shops, but Ch2 is generally pretty full. That's almost half of the existing data not incorporated into the guide. I realize that it's not feasible timewise for OP to do this, but it's still a major knock against the accuracy of the guide.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  9. deribou
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    deribou Skelegon

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    Honestly, this just means people don't have reading comprehension/critical thinking skills when they blindly follow a guide.
    Sort of just reflects poorly on the community as a whole rather than the guide, although this guide makes it easier to be misinformed/ignorant.
     
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  10. OP
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    C++ Mushmom

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    It is true that differentiating between slightly under/overpriced items and market movement is difficult, which is why most of the data collected must be incorporated into the average.

    There was a period of about a week where I aimed to keep prices as stable as possible while as low as possible by excluding more data points which were above the average, and what I found in that situation was that people started buying all of scroll X in FM (all channels) at a relatively low price and reselling at 2x the price the same/next day.

    By not including all slightly above average prices in the average, it makes monopolizing scrolls more affordable for people to accomplish, which is not beneficial to anyone except the one monopolizing.

    Ironically, the players who price their scrolls above average the most often, which drives up the average overtime, are not new players, but rather veteran players.
     
  11. Goose
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    Goose Red Snail

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    I pray to this thread every night before I go to bed. Thank you C++.
     
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  12. OP
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    C++ Mushmom

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  13. Ghost.
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    Ghost. Nightshadow

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    Your bow 30 and claw 30 prices are wrong
     
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  14. OP
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    C++ Mushmom

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    The data speaks for itself.
     
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  15. Zeretius
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    Zeretius Windraider

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    Yea Ghost.Ghost. listen to the man here, 3.5m for bow 30s is not a scam.
    [​IMG]
    B>all bow 30's 3.5m ea
     
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  16. deribou
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    deribou Skelegon

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    Please obtain all data and check all channels; otherwise it's quite misleading

    Of course, there's already a disclaimer that you only check channel 1; it's honestly more on people being lazy and not applying context to this guide.

    Also, already been brought up but FM shops tend to have mostly unsold items. Many unsold items that are intentionally overpriced to obtain "offers" from people, as well as items "sold" which are sold at the actual price and then cleared from shops. Unless there's a way for the community to track items sold in the database the guide is always going to be upper tiered in price (always seeing the upper end of the range items are sold, and then normalizing the upper end as the average).

    The idea for this guide is good but the execution can use some work.
     
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  17. Ghost.
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    Ghost. Nightshadow

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    As someone who browses the ENTIRE fm, including all channels, twice a day I can tell you a lot of your prices are wrong.
     
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  18. Hyoon
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    Hyoon Zakum Retired Staff

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    Also most Chaos/White Scroll sellers will instantly cash in due to them being worth a high amount of mesos.
    Most of the "data" from these items are unsold given that most people wouldn't purchase and would rather attempt to offer on.
     
  19. OP
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    C++ Mushmom

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    Averages are taken over multiple days.

    There is no "right" or "wrong" price for any scroll, only whatever a player is willing to buy/sell for, which differs for everybody.
     
  20. OP
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    C++ Mushmom

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    I agree, but as I said before, it would take more hours than are available in a day to check all channels.

    If you have any other suggestions on how to improve the guide and reasons why, I'd be happy to implement them.
     
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