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The State of ML's Economy and Event

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Hiyo, Dec 21, 2018.

  1. Hiyo
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    Hiyo Headless Horseman Retired Staff

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    Hello everyone, I just wanted to share some of my thoughts on the current state of the server's economy and how shitty it is. Also my thoughts on how this event is not going to help the economy but probably make it worse and it favors people with 100+ mules (yes you know who I am talking about).

    1- The current economy is extremely unhealthy, having 30% prices skyrocket and be controlled by 1-2 individuals is really harmful to the game's economy. Yes, I am aware that this is a free market, however, I do believe controlling a market where there are hundreds of active players is not an easy feat and I believe that it should be looked into as there might be other factors that helped that person achieve such control. I do hope this gets looked into as the economy will keep getting worse and worse and its a big reason players quit the game because they don't want to spend 2 hours to buy 1 30% scroll or 15 hours for a white scroll.

    2- This event does not reward you for playing your character, or rather it is not as rewarding to play with your actual character as it is leveling up mules and doing the PQ and repeating the process. Even after the PQ nerf it is still optimal to do the PQ on 6 characters and keep repeating the process until you have enough for a raffle. These characters might take time to make but they remain useful till the end of the event. People with more mules benefit a lot more than people with no/fewer mules and I find it very unfair. I do hope some changes do happen where the PQ is less effective, Snowman is less impactful and buff the grinding aspect more because people should play 1 character to make the most out of an event, not 30 characters.

    Some solutions I thought of:

    #1: The new gachapon idea is very great but perhaps polishing its rewards and remove some of the junk (like low-level equipment, and the smegas) can help. Also, remove the level requirement to use it in case that hasn't been done.
    #1: Make some quest/gacha only scrolls drop from mobs so people who want to farm them rather than spend money can have the option to do so.
    #2: Change the PQ reward to be something else but still nice, maybe socks and having the red/white socks be a bit rare is something to consider.
    #2: Reduce the odds to get CS/WS from Santa, buff the odds to get CS/WS from Fur Puff.
    #2: Buff the droprate of coins by a bit so it is more rewarding to farm these.

    Just a small tip: Always check the prices of scrolls and items before selling, being lowballed by a merch is the worst thing that could happen.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2018
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  2. bikkie
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    bikkie Blue Snail

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    I agree. +1 for Proposed solutions
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    As names shouldnt be named/accused, we all know who is it lol. Its unfair doing this to a Small Server with such an amazing community. Make the game more rewarding for actually playing the game vs just logging on to do the few things for endgame rewards.

    #2: Reduce the odds to get CS/WS from Santa, buff the odds to get CS/WS from Fur Puff.
    #2: Buff the droprate of coins by a bit so it is more rewarding to farm these.

    I agree with these 2 right here. would also recommend to buff coin droprate for mage ultimates. As the event goes on, mages would like to sell leech/gain the great amount of exp they need to lvl, not farm at low lvl maps to get coins. Arch Mage Friend: " leeching for 7 hours for only 200 coins is not fair at all as a mage"
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
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  4. Lumina
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    Lumina Master Chronos

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    I do not believe mage drop rates need to be buffed. From personal experience picking up coins as I'm being leeched at dukus has been just as fast as farming in noob maps with my solo skill. I'm questioning the coin drop rates for specific MONSTERS (we all know which one!!) tbh because there are crazy discrepancies between leeching in some maps v. others despite using same mage skill.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    In end of the day we cannot control what someone spends his mesos on. Some people know the future and use their mesos to buy everything out the shop to then merch it later. This isn't only happening now, but has happened many times before. Also, at times someone that quit buys out the whole Free Market just to see prices spike up for no reason at all. That's what merchers do, and is what merchers always were doing. Old users may remember 'FutureLegend'. He was very infamous for doing the exact same thing.'

    As for rates they are daily observed and tweaked throughout the event, and that is still happening now as we speak.

    Regarding Christmas PQ. There already were a few things implemented against mules last revision besides the nerf. We are going to look further into what we can do to discourage the use of mules and accounts that are from same owner.

    The Gachapon tickets cannot be changed until they are removed from the Cash Shop. The proposed idea to remove the level limit would also be removing the level limit from the ones bought from the Cash Shop, because they are currently the very same item. We could technically add a second check that only expiring ones (thus bought from Cash Shop) are ones with a level limit, but that's in my opinion a very ugly approach. 'Major' changes to the experimental Gachapon will likely not happen until they are removed from the Cash Shop ('if' they will be removed in the future).

    Fur Puff's currency has major formula tweak/overhaul this event compared to all the events before, but of course it can always be improved over the course of time. This is once again something we are looking and observing through the course of the event.

    We greatly appreciate this topic though. In end of the day we were looking for feedback, and that's what this exactly is.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
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  6. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    I disagree, because ive done this on my Bishop as well. it is not the same. you can look at my old streams and see how much faster it is
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. OP
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    Hiyo
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    Hiyo Headless Horseman Retired Staff

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    Anything regarding this?

    I think this would promote actively playing the game and exploring new areas that are not the best for exp, kinda like Nightghosts having good scrolls but the exp is pretty awful. Alternatively, you could make those scrolls have a higher chance to pulled from gachapon, like 3x higher if adding them to mobs may seem a bit custom.
     
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  8. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    I can agree with this, scrolls such as : knuckle 30%s are only from gachapon, and its a less popular class vs Claw 30s are easily farmed for a class thats most popular

    I EVEN WENT TO GOBIES WHERE THE SPAWN IS 6 MOBS PER HOUSE, it aint the same
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    Adding current non-existing scrolls into the mob-pool table is something custom and needs a big thought through in order to accomplish that. I also think that is a separate issue unrelated to the event, since even outside the event 30%'s that drop from mobs are more available compared to Gachapon only ones.

    However, I was pretty open to this idea back in 2016 before we decided push the Mob Gachapon into the game, so who knows at some point we will revisit that concern.
     
  10. Danna
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    Danna Slime

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    FAISAL LETS GO STR8 FOR EACH OTHER I FKN LOVE U THANK YOU FOR THIS POST MARRY ME <3
     
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  11. Camille
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    Camille Master Chronos

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    and that's the tea sis!
     
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  12. Lumina
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    Lumina Master Chronos

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    MY POINT was not that mages aren't nerfed it's that it's by monster and not the skill. To compare you need to bring an attacker that one hits houses and one hits fishies and everything and go to that specific map and see if they get AMAZING drop rate in an hour v. a mage skill there in an hour. I'm saying that I think it's probably some monsters (specifically leech maps) have their drop rate nerfed vs. it's the mage skill getting low drop rate due to the specific skill nerfed.
     
  13. Waeri
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    Waeri Horny Mushroom

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    Be a baka once, just not forever.
    thank u habibi
     
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  14. hsmule5430
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    hsmule5430 Slimy

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    for chrismas pq just make it so u can only play on one acc from same ip somehow (like how u kick from russian roulette or whatever)
    snowman i think is ok as is (same with santa) (beside the lag in map which is different issue)
    i do agree coins drop have to be buffed as it is pretty low right now (u mostly get the snow pieces to spawn snowman but they mostly useless)
    i also agree gacha state is not the best right now. maybe check what other servers do and see what works (i only play legends so i dont really know)
    anyway what the server really slacks on is surge of new players like in summer 2017. currently the value of end game scrolls/equips sky rocket while everything else is useless. definitely not a healthy way for the market or game

    edit: also for the mule issue in cpq. just make it so it is quite hard and u really need the help of fellow comrades to complete the pq. so multi clienting alone won't be enough to clear the thing
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
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  15. Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

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    Well... here's my thoughts.

    It's a "free market" and anyone can just buy what they want and control and ruin the market, right?

    Well at least allow people to have some "free speech" and name some names. Then maybe it'll actually be easier to avoid selling to these people, and thus that will loosen the grip they have on the market. All we can really do is encourage people to sell items directly to the consumers, the people who need them, not people who just want to stockpile and merch them.
     
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  16. Apuntar
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    Apuntar Orange Mushroom

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    BOI this right here would solve it all for me, If I could just farm my classes 30% weapon scroll I'd spend the time looking for them like I currently do for the overpriced 30% spear att ones. Why is it that some scrolls are hard capped by gacha/secret scrolls?
     
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  17. Eminence
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    Eminence Mushmom

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    Mages are 100% nerfed according to their skills. Your comparison is wrong if you want to test if skills are being nerfed. The correct way to test if mages skills are being nerfed is to compare a mage 4th job skill against their 3rd/2nd job skills to see if there is a drop rate difference at the same map. As a bishop who has farmed around 2000 coins so far and has tested various means of farming coins, I can guarantee that genesis yields a lower drop rate of coins as compared to heal, shining ray and magic claw according to my sample size. Though you maybe right that the nerf may not apply to certain maps as I have not tested that out.

    But back to the main topic at hand, the current stat of ML's economy. I agree with Hiyo that ML's economy is trash. Especially with his first point where players have monopoly over the market. But really, there isn't any real solution to this. I agree with hsmule5430hsmule5430 that a large part of it is due to every equipment other than end game equipment being worth something while everything is useless. It makes it easier to manipulate the market when you know that the item/scroll you have monopoly over will never go out of favor.

    I disagree with increasing the drop rate of coins. It took 10 hours and above to farm for 1 attempt of the legendary raffle for the Halloween event. While for the Christmas event, 100 coins can be easily be farmed in slightly over an hour [excluding cpq]. Though there are more less desired prizes in the Christmas raffle, we can tell by the number of WS/CS won in this event so far that you would take 10 trade ins for the Christmas raffle as compared to 1 attempt of the legendary raffle. Also I don't think the unnatural increase in WS and CS is good for the economy either. It gives players with high purchasing power the ability to gain monopoly over the market by buying a large amount of these scrolls that would always be desired due to the decrease in price as there is a large increase in quantity of these scrolls and hording them till the event ends.

    My final thoughts is that with or without events, ML's economy is still trash. Especially by inflation. There is a lack of a messo sink which means that the only way messos is getting destroyed is by taxes or buying items through npcs, e.g. pots. As long as the game goes on, scrolls and equips are only going to get more expensive as messos are constantly being circulated which makes it difficult for new players to purchase items as everything is very expensive which can be a deterring point in joining this server. There isn't even a point in using 30% scrolls on non end game equips as they're so expensive to purchase.
     
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  18. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    I disagree with the economy being trash. Its just at the end game part of a servers life, where end game items inflate heavily while early game items deflate (something that happens when there is more demand for end game items than early game).

    Sure, we have people manipulating the market, but the fact remains that if you owl for a specific item you need, more often than not, you will see at least 1 copy in the free market.

    In my opinion, the economy is trash when there are no more purchasable items in the market. Sure, the items may be expensive, but they are still purchasable. If you don't want to buy the items from the monopolist, why not try to farm them yourself via gachapon? Maybe its easier to get mesos and buy items at a premium than farm them yourselves? If not why don't people farm them?
     
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  19. firesarrow
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    firesarrow Chronos

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    Hi there.

    In regards to new players and the economy there needs to be a method implemented so new players can get gacha items to make some decent mesos early game and for existing players to get the items they need for progress.

    And the one issue im elluding to is availablity of class weapon dark scrolls.

    My suggestion is to add each class weapon's dark scroll to one or two different mobs so at least players get a chance to get a few dark scrolls for the class of their choice. This would also get people to visit less popular map regions.

    This way if a merchant decides to buy out the whole market, no problem, people can farm for some more.

    Another possible suggestion, though unpopular, is to adjust the cash gachapon ticket rates so people can get decent scrolls and items again.

    It would be a decent method to a stabler economy as far as item and scroll supply because people could gacha for the scrolls they needed and make some money to buy things from the market too.

    I am not advocating vote abuse and vote2win in any way shape or form.

    Also possibly unpopular idea: Perhaps we can also increase hunting gacha ticket drop rate to a good number where people can easily get 8 to 12 tickets in a few hours(with the drop rate being lowered for mage ultimate skills of course. I am also archmage)

    This way people have more access to the items and dark scrolls in the gachapon. And this method allows class weapon dark scrolls to be more available in the market again.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
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  20. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    One other thing I know people are doing for long darn time now is hoarding Chaos Scrolls and White Scrolls in hope to sell them when they are as expensive as they can be. Some of these users which I saw them even say are upset that their gamble to hoard said items didn't paid off because they are cheapen up, and are rushing to sell all of them ASAP now.

    Anyway, as I've mentioned in the first post everything is being observed and we will re-visit the 30%'s 'bias' for some jobs where some of them are available and some not. Since that is more in my personal agreed that I find it stupid how Neckson handled those. Obviously they did it for pay2win reasons, so we need find or see if there's ways to fix it in a natural and fair way.
     
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