Completed Scheduled Maintenance February 22, 2019

Yeah the exp is good, but in terms of meso, I don't think a 2 party run is that great. Each person spends like 3-5m in hp/mp pots depending on class (yeah NLs / shads spend alot less), and then if you add in the cost of apples, stews, and heartstoppers you are looking at single run costing like 66 to 90m total in mesos. Yeah if a good book like gen20 or mw20 drops, you cover that and more, but they don't always drop and if they do, the profits are split between two parties so its really only worth running HT for exp, for two party runs at least.

 

Then hopefully, with this new timer. Prices go back up and the incentive to run is higher. Everyone just hss to be on the same page

 

Well my opinion is you don't need to be shot in the foot to know you are not going to like the experience.

This change to the timer is absolutely unnecessary and just makes the game pointlessly harder, restricting classes and requiring higher levels and better gear than before. Not only that, but running with 30 people just isn't ideal. It's harder to organize, more expensive overall, more lag, and you have to split up the profits all the more.

The server has been running nearly 4 years with this timer, has it not? Why change the timer now, and why in such a way that doesn't affect older, more established players and hurts new players? People often talk of boss monopolies, and this will literally become true as only a very small subset of players will be able to pull off the HT run while keeping a larger share of the spoils.

 

I honestly think this is because staff doesn't like the low horntail book prices and are looking for ways to increase the price of books without affecting the drop rate, and making horntail harder is one way to do it.

 

Since we're discussing Horntail changes... is there any chance we can get a discussion going for if HT should be able to seduce random targets instead of the first one in? Would make the fight way more exciting, instead of seeing someone with 30k HP getting seduced over and over.

 

i would love for the "old" HT functions to work in the "new" ht functions as well! thatd be cool :3

 

Kinda sad to see your nightlord get seduced into the heads, but that's just strategy I suppose. It'd definitely make the runs more challenging, but with the new time limit we need less safe and more dpm strategies. (Nightlords focussing the right heads while cleavers can cleave)

 

The strong players who run competent groups will not be affected by this time limit. HT runs will continue to be "easy" and done with eyes closed. More importantly, it's this subset of players you should be worrying about if you feel HT is too easy or too frequently done.

But yeah, if you want to make HT "more challenging" and drive up book prices, this is certainly a way to do it.. and not in a good way. It's not like the boss itself is made harder with a shorter time limit. One could argue having to slog through a boss fight for five hours is much harder than if it only took one hour. All this change really does is change the demographics of who can actually complete the run, and it mandates that more people group up together, even though they would rather not.

 

Exactly. People will continue running 6 man party, but exclude the lower lvl players, or be more hesitant to take classes with lower dpm. Runs will stay easy, the difference will be in the composition of parties.
Lets admit it, it's easier to take 6 people with higher damage and run ht, with lower risk and no need to use as many resources than looking for 2 bishops (that's already hard to find) getting more resources, apples and heartstoppers, to be able to bring lower lvl/lower dpm players.
I'm not saying it will never happen and lower lvls/ lower dpm players will never be included, but the point is - it'll be more risky for the host and less convenient to actually try and pull it off.

This is why I'll not expect to see feedback in the form of "ht is impossible now, we can't finish it in 2 hours" but more of "well, I don't get to run as often as I used to because I don't have enough dpm", but sadly ppl will not complain about something like that.... so I'm afraid it might go unnoticed.

 

I can confirm what controlpanel is saying. I'm sorry for those with lower dpm, but with the new timelimit I'm going to have to say no to low dpm people... I usually run 6-man runs because it's actually easier to get 6 people together than to get 12 (the bigger exp and splits help ofc)

Side note though, I think the message is clear. I'm sure the staff will keep an eye on it and see where it leads. I think the random sed is a good alternative

 

Ehh, I mean low dpm people can just apple the ENTIRE run (or more than other attackers) to bring their DPM up to par. Then theres no issue right, other than that they probably make less mesos since they gotta cover their apples, but at least they get really good exp.

 

At some point you can't increase your attack anymore. Strong attackers use apples too. How do you top that if you need to apple to match their unbuffed damage already? Apples don't stack

 

Are your strong attackers appling the entire run including preheads? If so then theres nothing the weaker attackers can do.

I'm just saying that a weaker attacker willing to use higher level attack pots, or use those higher level attack pots longer can use it to equalize their lower DPM somewhat.

Also a weak attacker would have to be like a mage (or high base int ranged attacker, which is also a mage in some sense) for their apple damage to match the unbuffed damage of one of your strong attackers. 100 attack is a pretty dam large boost.

 

that's a real fancy way of saying "power creep"

 

"We" didn't used to, but then when something went wrong the runtime would go over 2 hours. Now we will definitely stew during preheads and use a few apples during the body.

I agree that weaker attackers moght have to bring their own attack buffs. So far, though, not many have. Maybe some will

 

After discussing further with friends about the 2 hours cap, those points came up:

1. Less meta classes become even LESS meta - widens the class gap between the usuals (NLs, BMs, DKs) and the fun but rarer classes (which are rarer because they aren't as relevant for end game bosses, and they'll be even less relevant now with this change)

2. Low number of players at specific lvls in specific times means it's very hard to organize runs as it is (with timezones problem), and some lower level people just get screwed over by this

3. Pink Bean gets added and can fill the slot of a true endgame boss; HT has the potential to fill a slot one below that, and this change directly hurts this potential. Because we have zakum around 140, then ht around 160 and pb gonna be a boss for 180.

 

I think people are panicking way too much about the HT changes, 2 hours is plenty enough to finish an HT run. You don't need a super elite party of BMs/NLs with 8m+ dpm to finish a 6man HT under 2 hours, a reasonably strong lxl 17x party is more than enough as long as no one dies/dcs.
As for 12mans, the timer change is completely irrelevant. If a 12man party cannot finish in under 2 hours there is something very wrong.

 

the real thing is when people dc/die. if a 6 man party and the se dc midway u may as well just leave. i think its a good change but will shift the meta from 1 party to 2

 

My concern is for the starting up guilds that are not quite up there in the levels or gear, and for the other classes less optimal for bossing. The change is very very unfair and unnecessary. Fake difficulty.

Of course, you can have up to 30 people fight HT at once! But I think that we haven't had many groups this large for a reason.