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P/C [Kykeon's Item Scrolling Cost Simulator]

Discussion in 'Free Market' started by Kykeon, May 9, 2019.

  1. Kykeon
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    Kykeon Blue Snail

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    Hey Maple Friends,

    In regards to item scrolling, i've always manually run simulations of the production cost of scrolling items to better estimate their profitability margin and to gauge how lucky/lucky i've been. So I went ahead and made a tool for simulating the costs of producing scrolled items.



    It works like this:

    1. You enter the base information of the item you're scrolling¬



    2. You Select the first scroll kind (10,30,60,70) and enter the number of passes in a row you'd like along with that scrolls current price.¬



    3. Finish you can finish here or continue and complete the remaining of the rounds in similar fashion.¬



    4. If it suits you, go ahead and specify the stat gain for the scrolls you're using for an accurate representation of your scrolled item.¬



    5. Drop in a picture if you wanna make it pretty.¬



    And that's pretty much it. It'll give you the cost of production of that item. After that, you can put in the prices you'd prefer to sell your item at and tinker with the [Luck Multiplier] setting until you match that price. (I havent quite figured out the math for auto-calculating it yet ** if anyone has any idea please message me and i'll implement its auto-calculation)¬





    After playing around with this, you'll realize just how insanely lucky you'd be to scroll some of those +10 items. Prices are always sold under the cost of production, this single earring was definitely a best case item.

    Here's the link to the spreadsheet, go ahead and head to File>Make A Copy.

    Thanks for reading :>

    ¬Kykeon
     
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  2. imadde
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    imadde Mixed Golem

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    Prices are always sold under the cost of production because people are cheap ass. From 2015-2018 when i played, i think i had maybe 3 decent s/b on high tier/semi-perfect items, And i usaly priced my shit way lower than other people with similar stats items. People are greedy fuckers and will always be.
    Sorry for rambling. But my point is it does not matter if you shove statistics & shit up their face.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
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  3. OP
    OP
    Kykeon
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    Kykeon Blue Snail

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    Yeah, thats a fair observation. The free market is supply and demand and I think its in the nature of a free market that people will generally undercut production cost to sell faster. The utility in these statistics is though, for me, just a better way to differentiate between whether or not something is worth scrolling for a profit(or personal use) based on current market prices. Same goes for buying things, if I know a scrolled item is being way undersold on production cost i'm much more liable to snatch it up for being a gem. This has helped me. I hope it'll help others.
     
  4. Ever
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    Ever Mixed Golem

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    How do you decide luck multiplier for s/b and a/w?
    I don't get why average cost of production is larger than s/b and a/w.
    Is it because ppl undercut?


    Btw, let's say if I tried to make +7 weapon (+3 30s & +4 60s), should I input Round 1 for 30s (#3), then Round 2 for 60s (#4)?

    I get different result when I put Round 1 for 30s (#3), Round 2 for 60s (#2), Round 3 for 60s (#2) compared to above.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  5. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    Even if we focus our discussion on the theoretical value of items, there is quite a bit of shortcomings to this calculator.

    Firstly, it should be noted that the value of production from this calculator does not take into account the value of "failed" products. To demonstrate what I mean, let us consider the value of a 14atk wg. To make a 14 atk wg, one would have to pas 7/7 gfa 60%/70%s on a bwg or a marker. If you plugged in the values for gfa/bwg/marker prices you would find that the theoretical price for 14atk wgs is on the order of 400m. However this does not take into account the value of 10/12atk wgs that may be created in the process, thus lowering production costs. Let us apply this to the case of your earring. The last 60% you passed bumped the production value from 380m to 600m, which reflects the fact that on average it takes 1.66 attempts to pass a 60% scroll. Consider the case where you have 2 versions of you +3 earrings, then 1 60% passes and 1 60%s fails. The earring with he failed final 60% does not have a negligible price, you must factor this into the production cost.

    Another major problem is that you are not taking into account the combinatorics associated with the problem. Let us look at your earring again. Even ignoring the problem I have discussed in the previous paragraph, you are estimating the value of an earring with those stats AND 1 slot left, while your earring has no slots. For example, you are neglecting the possibility of someone getting to +3, then failing a 60%s, and then succeeding a 60% on the final slot. In fact you are missing a lot of permutations. Let me list a couple,

    pass 10%
    pass 30%
    fail 30%
    pass 30%
    pass 60%

    pass 10%
    fail 30%
    pass 30%
    pass 30%
    pass 60%

    pass 10%
    pass 30%
    pass 30%
    fail 60%
    pass 30%

    All of these cases would result in the same earring as yours, and you would have to take them all into account if you want to accurately estimate the theoretical value.

    While I do think this is an admirable attempt to provide estimates for scrolled items, the aforementioned issues in combination for the discrepancy between theoretical and actual prices makes this hardly useful at all.
     
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  6. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    The real reason items are ALWAYS sold under the cost of production is that along the way it is likely you scroll some decent items that have value, thus lowering your REAL cost of production.

    Also if everyone is a greedy fucker then that also means that nobody really is, since "greedy fucker" probably should refer to people who are greedier than the average person.
     
  7. OP
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    Kykeon
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    Kykeon Blue Snail

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    Yeah, there have been more than few shortcomings in the (let's call it) beta release lmao. I encountered the same dillemma. As for why the cost of production is higher: I think its just because there either isn't enough collective demand to justify selling at cost of production, and/or sellers won't hold out for long enough to sell for cost of production.

    As for that bug. I think theres a discrepancy in the math for producing cost of items between rounds. I'll see if I can work my head around it when ive got more time to look at it.

    As for the luck multiplier. I haven't been able to generate it mathematically/automatically in the sheet for you. I've got a script running that manually adjusts the cost of production to the a/w s/b until the prices match. Giving you the luck multiplier.

    As for how its calculated to begin with, its just a multiplier on the scroll chance to succeed. e.g. A 1.5x mult on a 30% scroll raises the scrolls chance to succeed to 45%.

    SelquinSelquin
    You make very valid points, and you're right to throw shade on the integrity of the estimations outputted. I was aware of these things in building the sheet, but its really just beyond my scope of ability to accommodate such a complete model. Having made that concession, despite your assertion that it is 'hardly' useful-- I finished it in the hopes that it might still be moderately useful. Although, you do shine a better light on the lack of scope than I have myself, that rightly diminishes it a little more in my own mind.

    And in spite of that, for me, accompanied by a little sense, I think it has been moderately useful. I am, though, starting to doubt the overall integrity of my calculation as more bugs bubble to the surface.

    Thanks for the input though, I do appreciate it.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
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  8. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    I think I came off harsher than I wanted to on my last sentence. What I should have said is that you can use this calculator to get a rough first order estimate, but there is a good chance the "actual" price can be quite a bit off and you should keep in mind the aforementioned when actually coming up with a price.
     
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