Let thy be without washing

I had a similar experience at GS2. I decided to max final attack and this other page who I shall not name told me I was dumb.

 

We can always advise someone the most optimal route which we think is the best.
But calling someone dumb or insulting someone just because they choose their own playstyle, is very narrow-minded.

 

There's a saying I've heard repeated a few times now. HP washing is optional, but so is bossing.
It's true that you will have a harder time bossing if you don't wash, but that doesn't mean the game is unplayable by any stretch. Ultimately, the choice over whether or not to hp wash is yours to make.
I've had somewhat the opposite problem of the OP. I'm washing pretty heavily, much to the detriment of my damage. People have called me out on that, but I'm not particularly concerned about what they say. I am fully aware of the drawbacks and I have plans to ameliorate them.
I think as long as you are fully aware of the risks and drawbacks and that you've made your decisions with that in mind, you need not fear the criticism of anyone.

 

Some people act as though endgame bossing is whole purpose of the game. I do feel there are lots of people that are just in it for the fun, and wont ever reach endgame bosses such as HT and the likes. HP-washing is absolutely not needed to have fun, and for some people (me included) min/maxing is just destroying the fun.

My tip is to enjoy yourself the way you want to play. And to other people - please stop bothering new players with HP-washing. It overwhelming to alot of people, and most likely discourages people to return to a game they havent played in 10 years.

 

what other things are there to do at high levels?
in almost every game the main goal is to defeat the last boss. this is rpg.

i wish someone told me about hp washing at early level. its better to know about it and choose how you want to play, than not know it and feel stuck at high level when you find out you did it all wrong.

 

I don't know, I kinda agree with Eslur. HP washing does not really matter to casual players, so bugging new players about it is kind of harmful imo. It's like asking them to prepare for something that will probably not happen.

If they end up being a competitive, end game player here on legends, remaking a character is not that difficult especially with how overpowered leeching is here. Making an unwashed character is not a waste of time. You have fun playing it and earn mesos as you progress with it. Any equips / funding you get playing your unwashed character will carry over to your washed one.

 

Idk. To make the same class and level it up all over again sound boring to me. And leech is not so cheap. To level up this way cost alot.

I know telling new players about hp washing might be harmful to the server. But its the friendly thing to do.
I dont see how its bothring them too. You tell them once and they can choose( hp wash/casual/other server)
What if new player want to get to high levels, and leave after he find out he didnt hp wash. Isnt it harmful to the server too?

 

If a player makes it to high level i would expect they would be fairly well funded since it takes alot of time to level on this server.

If you look around, you will see that a lot of the people who are very high level don't have just 1 high level character. They usually have 2 high level characters. If a person is willing to grind 1 character to high level, chances are they are hard core enough to grind a second one up just as high.

 

Just saying, you dont need 120base int - 20base int to do all the bosses.
Its possible to do it with 60-80base int as a bowman/thief.

We have alot of HP essential items ingame in ML and they help you get enough HP.
People say you need 11.5k hp to tank all of PB, this is current but this is to TANK ALL HITS.
You only need 8.2k hp to tank the main attacks,the 1 shot attacks you CAN dodge them. The same with Nameless boss, you dont need 19k hp to kill it, you CAN dodge that attack.

With minimal washing, you can reach 8k hp easily, jsut from lowbase int + int gear (you gain in the future), you do NOT have to have all ur crazy int/base int from hte get go. I have guildies who started washing at lvl 120+ because they were not informed BUT they calculated and checked and went for it. Yes, you have to wait for resets and etc, but in the end its a new goal. just remember you CHOOSE to wash the certain amount of HP. you do NOT have to wash to 10k hp or however the next person does. My friend washed alittle (around 6k) and she runs HT daily.

Babo/Tommy is an old player and he is lvl 200, and he didnt wash alot BUT with all the HP essential gear, He will be able to PB as well.

Washing is how you make it, play the game how you want to, enjoy the small things on the server and friends, make small goals so you dont get burnt out right away. Go At Your Own Pace. It is possible to do all the bosses and not have crazy base int like the higher level players are doing. This is also a v62 Server, washing was there back then, theres nothing we could do now tbh. 4 years into a server you cant just change it drastically, thats a BIG BIG CHANGE/GAMBLE. It sounds discouraging, but please dont be.

Also thers more to just bossing on this server. You can do other things, not just bossing. Its not all about endgame content/bossing/dmg. Most people are still here because of the social aspect. Its nice to change it up every once in awhile yknow?

 

Instead of overwhelming them with washing, i would ask questions like
Do you have more than 1ip and more than 1device?
If so, do vote on your extra account for possible future use, i.e. washing but will not go into the details.

They can choose to wash or not to wash, their choice.
Deliberately withholding the existence of hp washing, is stripping away their choices.

 

still if by some chance a casual player got to 180, i would like to know that hes not blocked from main content or the last boss. i think its something like 2.5years of casual play btw. (with 20mexp/day at high levels). it might take more time but why to think casual players cant get there?
btw most of the players are casual. most have jobs or study to do and play only 1 hour a day.
if the server is too hardcore i think we will lose a lot of players(by hardcore i mean the remake char solution). some like the rates and can accept that it will take them few years to get to high level but if they cant do the content there what the point?
edit: also if you ramake you lose all the quests and item you got.

everyone here say that you should play how you want, but to me its look like we force hp washing on those who want to finish the game. why not give new players all the options? dont hide information from them.

its 80-100 washes for lvl 180. 15 lvl of 120int mp wash, or lower base int but more levels with normal/mp wash. i dont think its easy as you make it.

 

If you remake you may lose all quests and untradable items, but you still have the wealth you accumulated from playing and trad-able equips. The second time making a character will be many times faster than the first, because 1) you have experience making a character so you know what to do
2) you have funding for good gear / leech.

I know good gear / leech is expensive, but I think its unrealistic to say a high level player cannot afford them. Just looking at the level history of my paladin (IGN Protoss), I was able to go from level 1 to 137 in 23 days because I have funding from previous characters for good gear and leech.

Why do you think people would quit when they remake? Unwashed characters are not useless. They can still do like 90% of the content in the game, and if you get to high level you probably enjoy playing this game (or else why spend all those hours getting to high level). Remaking a character is basically a replay opportunity. I know that I and many other people replay games that we enjoy.

 

23 days from1 to 137 show that you hardcore player. What other character you have and how much the leech cost you?
My point was that most play casually and wont be able to afford the remake. If you want take me as example.

I think most dont want to replay the same class again. Normally you enjoy new experiences more (when it comes to games at least). The choice they will have will be between replay here, replay on new better servers, or change game completly.

 

It is though. Soni had 60base int, and he has 11k hp after all the HP essential items. All these "old players" who come back and grind these HP essential items are able to do PB and other endgame bosses. There are people who CHOOSE to not HP wash or heavily hp wash and they still enjoy the game. lower base int isnt bad. No ones telling you to get 120-200 base int

 

I chose 120 base int because i want to get to the minimum hp needed and be done with it as fast as i can. So i can get my max damage potential at lvl 155. because i dont have mage class to leech myself i feel any lack of damage hurt my progress.
I think most wouldnt like to keep base int until 180.
To wash at lower levels is so much more easy in my opinion. To hide this from new players just looks so unfriendly to me.

Edit: what the old players comment is about? The only way to get to pb hp without 80-100 washes is with perfect or very good pet items. Also if they are already above 180 they got little extra hp

 

you CHOSE to get that base int. no one told you to. The server doesnt hide it, they tell them its hp washing from the get-go. and it truly is optional. you have many options to wash as little, or wash as heavy. You can even not wash at all. Not washing at all is not a thing because. You end up getting endgame gear such as pendant/ring/helm. and those all add up to you give SOME washing as you progress (without even knowing) , all you have to do is buy a reset to check for yourself. Whatever gear you wear, youll end up getting a wash every once in awhile. So remotely, just "casually" playing the game, you wash on your own and not knowing. 60base int isnt even alot of base. You still do plenty of dmg with 60base int. Especially having CRIT buff Skills, your dmg will always "not be shit".

I see your frustration, but its really not as bad as it seems. there are people whos waited/done worse

 

I've always said this and I'll say it again hp washing is a luxury. Casual players who don't see themselves going late game will probably never do it and that's fine.

For those who do decide to go late game there are plenty of hp washing guides on the forums as well as numerous ways now to achieve hp with rings, mon and such items. So no there is not a lack of information. For those casual players that do end up getting a decent level, they will 100% be notified of hp washing by an early level whether it be friends, guild mates.

I agree with eiji that with all the items now a lot of players can get away with minimum levels if washing and be able to clear all the content (with a party of course).

You won't be going anywhere near pb until you are 180+ so there should be no worry about funds or time. 180 in itself already takes time and you should be decently funded and have plenty of time to gather the nx.

Also a 100 ap difference isnt too huge in terms of damage, and won't hinder your progress as your damage should still be decent.

In the end it is still your decision how you want to wash, the fact that you want to reach your goal at an earlier stage of 155 will cause you to need higher mp in order to wash.

 

You know we talking about pb with the "optional" part.
If we talking about the game (the server) it doesnt tell you about hp washing either. If its the players, i was talking about what people said here that we shouldnt tell new players about it or hide it from them so they wont leave.

 

HP washing is an exploit and shouldn't be allowed or possible in-game. It should be patched out, all HP/MP should be reset, and balance changes should be made to make it unnecessary. Otherwise it's always gonna be a hindrance that turns away new players and makes the game unenjoyable.

 

If I were starting a new server, I agree with you and I would just get rid of HP washing entirely. I feel like it ruins the game because you have to get a mage to 4th job and then buy expensive int gear and then self leech your attacker to 135. Not only that, but you have to suffer through the early levels of being carried by non-washing characters in PQs. And then even if you manage to get your attacker to 135 you have to wait like 3+months of daily AP reset to be able to do decent damage.

Before you crucify me I know that technically HP washing is optional. You don't have to HP wash to play the game. I get it. But the fact is if you don't HP wash then it makes bossing more difficult in general, and some bosses not possible unless you have HB (HT, certain NT bosses, and soon-to-be PB). Even for "easier" bosses like Scar and Zak, they still hit like 6-8k touch damage so a lower level ranged char will get 1 shot. And yeah I know it's dodge-able but you must admit it is easier to boss more comfortably with more HP.

So if it just makes the game more cumbersome (i.e. not being able to do decent damage for 3+ months, not being able to self train or contribute much in a PQ, etc), then why have HP washing in the first place? I honestly believe Neckson had this HP washing option implemented in GMS so that kids would spend hundreds of dollars to buy AP resets and make profit for the company. But since Legends isn't a pay-to-win server, and doesn't even have the option of buying vote NX in the first place, it makes no sense for Legends to have HP washing imo.

Getting back to your post though, I don't think the GMs should get rid of HP washing at this point in the server's life. Too many players have spent countless hours painfully washing their character and hundreds of millions of mesos on INT gear. If this was all patched out today it would irritate all the older players who had to suffer through this HP washing and spending hundreds of millions on INT gear. I know for me if HP washing was taken out of the game, I would feel frustrated that I spent months leeching people to finance hundreds of millions of mesos to scroll/buy INT gear. And then now it's all worthless gear.

So at this point, I'm not sure what the GMs can really do. If they remove HP washing, it will frustrate the 70%+ of the server that had to endure HP washing. If they keep HP washing, newer players will find it difficult to get started in the game. It seems like the best option is to advertise the server as "HP washing optional" to alleviate fears among new players that HP washing isn't necessary, while still providing those who HP washed with a more comfortable bossing experience. And I suspect that this is their strategy.