1. Hello!

    First of all, welcome to MapleLegends! You are currently viewing the forums as a guest, so you can only view the first post of every topic. We highly recommend registering so you can be part of our community.

    By registering to our forums you can introduce yourself and make your first friends, talk in the shoutbox, contribute, and much more!

    This process only takes a few minutes and you can always decide to lurk even after!

    - MapleLegends Administration-
  2. Experiencing disconnecting after inserting your login info? Make sure you are on the latest MapleLegends version. The current latest version is found by clicking here.
    Dismiss Notice

Shadowers...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Bad Bunny, May 16, 2019.

  1. Hyuga
    Offline

    Hyuga Mr. Anchor

    293
    285
    256
    Apr 23, 2015
    Female
    4:56 PM
    Proud leader of Aeon
    Don't get me wrong, i agree that shadower dmg is definitely lacking, adding a 50% boost to all their dmg (like shadow partner for shadowers) would merely bring them up to where the other single DPS classes are at. HOWEVERRRRRRRRRR. Shadowers from my experience was never about DPM, it has always been about versatility; in the sense that it is an extremely unique class that can potentially solo any content. Shifter in combination with meso guard in combination with almost constant iframe with a very long ranged cleave attack means you can run bosses without burning pots; time every iframe perfectly and you can even solo BG+Grandpa (the only melee class to achieve this - and without pot burn, i tested this myself). HP wash enough and you can solo HT without risk too.

    99% of the server prob all run around with the "omg dps is king" mindset so i'm not surprised that this post is up, but in exchange for lack of single target DPS, we get a ton of other bonuses.

    This is not true, i had some of the best gear in the server by far yes, but i only compared my dmg to the NLs and BMs with the best gear in the server too (who were already done with resetting base int). I also briefly tested my EPM vs mages in those (new at the time) monk maps and my EPM was matching or above theirs depending on rotation/positioning (using assaulter to bypass climbing up ropes or whatever); i highly doubt Drks and heroes could match that. Taunt and our map maneuverability too op.
    But anyway i'm just a washed up expired shad, idk what maps are the current hip and popular ones so things might have changed.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Fishy
    Offline

    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

    924
    304
    403
    Apr 8, 2017
    Male
    9:56 AM
    Eiji
    Dark Knight
    200
    Beaters
    Still #1 shad and great explanation for those to understand its not all about DPM. If there was 1 specific class to be good at training/mobbing/bossing/singleDPM , then itd be the #1 class playing right now, but that'd be too broken. Pros and cons of each class
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  3. OP
    OP
    Bad Bunny
    Offline

    Bad Bunny Mano

    12
    4
    10
    May 16, 2019
    9:56 AM
    Yes you are 100% right, shadowers have a lot of valuable tools. I just personally don't agree that the 1v1 damage gap should be that high between them and other classes. And i apologize for being misinformed and stating that you comparisons were done with weaker players, i actually shouldn't have said that. And about the EXP part Floor 7 at shaolin became the best map for meele attackers so actually tools like rush become more useful than say assaulter to move around the map (which was useful when you traing at ToT like you did) and some of my dark friends have shared their EPM with me and the difference between shad and darks isn't as high as i would've thought. Even if the main goal of the classes isn't precisely 1v1 dmg i believe a buff could be applied so it's a bit more bearable. Anyway my point isn't to state that shadowers are completely useless , i was genuinely motivated to add this post based on how i saw how other classes that didn't actually struggle or need buffs managed to get some and a big example would be BMs (Decently strong 1v1 dmg obviously not as good as NLs but they provide SE) getting a 10% crit buff and more recently a buff in concentration which iirc gives them 3 min up time 1 min downtime 26 att buff plus a buff on arrowrain helping them a bit with their mobbing. Anyhow i just thought that if classes that aren't generally considered weak managed to find changes maybe a class like shadower that is generally considered weak could find some changes.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. OP
    OP
    Bad Bunny
    Offline

    Bad Bunny Mano

    12
    4
    10
    May 16, 2019
    9:56 AM
    Yeah i don't really think everything in the game is about DPM but generally speaking one of the goals for most players and generally one of the main aspects of MMORPGs is bossing (If you don't believe me, just ask around and see how many people have a NL or are planning to make one). If you take away any of the corner stones of what makes an mmorpg then it stops being as good. If you remove bossing, mobbing, the social aspect of a game or any other key feature then game is lacking. Honestly if bosses like HT didn't have timer and PB (which will probably have a strictish timer to avoid it from being OP) i'd argue it wouldn't matter that much but it's part of the game design. Being rejected from boss runs because of your class is just sad yet understandable because people don't want to spend extra unnecessary time in a boss. My point we can all agree it's not about DPM but it's arguably the most important aspect for most of the players since most of the players just go for attacking classes as their mains and lacking severely in that aspect is a meh. Anyway i respect your opinion, if you don't think shadower should get a buff that's fine too. The goal of this post was to have some disscussion, i wasn't expecting anything out if it particularly.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Bad Bunny
    Offline

    Bad Bunny Mano

    12
    4
    10
    May 16, 2019
    9:56 AM
    One more thing i want to share is about how some pros and cons can be worked around and some others can't. I think when a class is severely lacking on a pro that can't be work around it is bound to keep some people unhappy. Most of the strong and long shad players agree that they need a buff in their 1v1 dmg. I'd argue that the main reason for this is that all of the shads pros can somehow be worked around. Mesoguard is too good? Sure i agree, but if you HP washing enough then you wouldn't really need this skill (even if it takes long). Shadowers grind super fast? Sure some other classes can grind at a good speed too. Even classes who can't (ranged attackers mains) usually make mages for self leech and get exp from bossing (there's a decent amount of bosses who give significant EXP to be fair). Even if isn't as fast it somehow has a workaround. Shad's don't get hit and use little pots? Definitely a huge pro but not getting hit is similar to stance in terms of dps consistency and when it comes to pots it helps but buying pots is a work around . Some of the things you can't work around include EPM and DPM. Shadowers can get very high EPM which is one of the biggest pros but at the same time exp is something you don't need forever (assuming you plan on hitting 200) or you don't need after you hit your level goal plus, you have all the time in the world to get the EXP. When it comes to DPM though if it's bad you can't work around it and unless we are talking about field bosses where you could just take 1 week to kill them since there's no timer then that's fine. Realistically though, HT which is currently one of the most important bosses has a timer so the amount of damage you can dish out in a given amount of time is a important. Obviously getting better items increases your DPM but if we do a relative comparison including same gear for two classes then the one who does better damage is the "Better dpm class" so obviously shads being weak is relative to other classes.
     
  6. KurayamiLove
    Offline

    KurayamiLove Skelegon

    951
    753
    413
    Mar 15, 2015
    Male
    Nautilus
    5:56 PM
    KurayamiLove/Nagrom/Amatista
    Buccaneer
    69
    Halcyon
    Is weird but I think poison has a limit, tested on dummies you cant poison twice a single mob o.o so once the poison dmg is over you cant refresh. This could be changed as well with that buff
     
  7. KurayamiLove
    Offline

    KurayamiLove Skelegon

    951
    753
    413
    Mar 15, 2015
    Male
    Nautilus
    5:56 PM
    KurayamiLove/Nagrom/Amatista
    Buccaneer
    69
    Halcyon
    Im not 100% sure about this but o.o Do archmages have better or same 1vs1 damage than shadowers (SE+SI)? I have the feeling they are very close.
    About the changes we can all discus them and know whats possible or not
     
  8. Krauser94
    Offline

    Krauser94 Designer Staff Member Graphics Designer

    387
    359
    274
    Nov 6, 2016
    Male
    5:56 PM
    Krauser94
    Shadower
    177
    Nebula
    According to the skill description it says 3 times, so yeah, it has a limit of times it affects on enemies.
     
  9. Hyuga
    Offline

    Hyuga Mr. Anchor

    293
    285
    256
    Apr 23, 2015
    Female
    4:56 PM
    Proud leader of Aeon
    If its any consolation, the meso you save on pots with iframes and high dodge rate can be used for meso explosion (dropping meso during nate/bs rotation is seamless if done right) to make up for DPM. So in a way, there's a way to work around our damage too :)

    Although having tried it myself, even i had problems maintaining constant DPM+dropping; my hand tired pretty quick lol and you have to concentrate when getting knocked back/forward to use assassinate's 3rd hit movement rather than brainless holding 1 key down...but its still possible :p
     
  10. OP
    OP
    Bad Bunny
    Offline

    Bad Bunny Mano

    12
    4
    10
    May 16, 2019
    9:56 AM
    Yeaah you can do that but as you said it's super hard to keep it consistant since once you get knocked away you have to reposition and so on but yeah, that would technically help with the DPS. But yeah i think relying on this mechanic shouldn't be the way because if you actually do this then every other shad "pro" regarding the money saving and how useful the not getting hit is for money saving is just defied. Then shad just becomes super expensive to play to deal acceptable 1v1 damage. I'd also like to thank you for your continuous feedback and comments.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  11. OP
    OP
    Bad Bunny
    Offline

    Bad Bunny Mano

    12
    4
    10
    May 16, 2019
    9:56 AM
    I don't have any data on this but i wouldn't be surprised at all. If you do find out would be nice to get confirmation. Thanks for the input.
     
  12. Mirrors
    Offline

    Mirrors Zakum Retired Staff

    1,923
    536
    465
    Jul 15, 2019
    Female
    9:56 AM
    Mirrors
    WeenieHutJrs
    I would love for Shadowers to get a bit more buffed / love. I was thinking about starting a Shadower since it's one of my favorite classes despite how meme-y and flashy it is. It's disheartening to hear that it's not viable late game, but I have a lot of fun blowing stuff up with Meso Explosion, so hopefully people will still let me into their boss runs regardless.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

Share This Page