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Skills and weapon balance (blunt, axe, staff).

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by bluelight, Jun 18, 2019.

  1. bluelight
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    bluelight Dark Stone Golem

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    Dear gm and mapler. I found that some weapons and gears, scrolls feel like trash. I think its mostly because of the low damage, attack speed or some stats requirement => It seem a little boring because players will tend to build gears for one way.

    I have some ideas to make MapleLegends feel more colorfull but I have just played warrior and mage so I just wrote for axe, 1 handed blunt and staff.

    I Suggest to change the skills of job 2 (page and fighter):
    Blunt Mastery: Mastery increase from 60% to 63%
    Axe Mastery: Mastery increase from 60% to 79%


    I also suggest to change the luk requirement of elemental staff (5-6-7-8) from 165 to 120.

    These are things I'm going to say

    According to ayumilovemaple i read the foumla to caculate damage
    https://ayumilovemaple.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/maplestory-formula-compilation/

    MAX = (Primary Stat + Secondary Stat) * Weapon Attack / 100
    MIN = (Primary Stat * 0.9 * Skill Mastery + Secondary Stat) * Weapon Attack / 100


    The skill mastery is 60%.
    => average fomular: (Primary Stat*0.77 + Secondary Stat) * Weapon Attack / 100

    -------------------------------------------
    For one Handed Blunt (Swinging)
    Primary: STR * 4.4
    Secondary: DEX


    One Handed BLunt (Stabbing)
    Primary: STR * 3.2
    Secondary: DEX

    The scale of swing/stab is 60% and 40%
    => 4.4*0.6 + 3.2*0.4 = 3.92
    => Average stats: Primary: Str*3.92
    Sencondary: Dex

    => the average damage 1h blunt :
    (Str*3.92*0.77 + Dex) * Weapon Attack / 100
    = (Str*3.0184 + Dex) * Weapon Attack / 100

    ---------------------------------------------------
    How about 1hand sword and 2hand sword. There are no different between stab and swings,
    1hand sword: 2hand sword:
    Primary: STR*4
    and Primary: Str * 4.6 rapidly.
    Secondary: dex Sencondary: dex

    => The average damage 1h sword:
    (Str*3.08 + Dex) * Weapon Attack / 100

    => The average damage 2h sword:
    (Str*3.542 + Dex) * Weapon Attack / 100
    -------------------------------------------------------

    I found that the way to blanace blunt is just for only 1hand blunt while for 2hand blunt feel like no hope.

    Normally ppl head to the end game weapon. There are usually 2 cases: with speed infusion and without speed infusion.

    For without speed infusion ppl usually choose the weap that have the highest att speed

    MapleLegends
    have released the Speargrave that is fast(4) for both blunt and sword.

    Asumpt that 2 players lv 200 and they just equip weapon and use heartstopper.
    1 used perfect scrolled spe blunt while the other used sword.

    It will be: 203 att for blunt and 200 att for sword.
    With maple warrior 20 they have: 1098 Str and 25 Dex

    The average damage 1h blunt :
    (Primary Stat*3.0184 + Secondary Stat) * Weapon Attack / 100
    = (1098 * 3.0184 + 25) * 203 / 100 = 6778,58

    The average damage 1h sword:
    (Primary Stat*3.08 + Secondary stat) * Weapon Attack / 100
    = (1098 * 3.08 + 25) * 200 / 100 = 6813,68

    => 1h sword can easily beat 1h blunt although less then 3att.


    --------------------------------------------
    And with speed infusion, ppl will compare the perfect crushed skull and shield with a perfect 2hand sword. The link bellow (by akashsky) clarified that a perfect Dragon Claymore can beat the perfect Crushed Skull with onyx apple. On the other hand if you can craft a perfect speargrave 2hand sword. It can beat a perfect crushed skull with Heartstopper.

    https://forum.maplelegends.com/inde...rison-crushed-skull-vs-dragon-claymore.24715/

    ----------------------------------------------------
    => For both case swords are better than blunts. And I found that its because of the damage fomula.

    What if we change the blunt mastery from 60% to 63%.

    As the fomula:
    MAX = (Primary Stat + Secondary Stat) * Weapon Attack / 100
    MIN = (Primary Stat * 0.9 * Skill Mastery + Secondary Stat) * Weapon Attack / 100


    If we change it to 63%,

    => average fomular change to: (Primary Stat*0.7835 + Secondary Stat) * Weapon Attack / 100
    As scale between stab and swing.
    Primary: Str*3.92
    Sencondary: Dex


    => The fomular change to: (Str*0.78358*3.92 + Dex) * Weapon Attack / 100
    = (Str*3.0716336+ Dex) * Weapon Attack / 100

    Compare with 1 hand sword:
    = (Str*3.08 + Dex) * Weapon Attack / 100

    Now 3.0716336 is nearly 3.08 and with the higher 3 att. Speargrave 1hand blunt have chance to catch up with speargrave 1hand sword.

    => With this little change the mastery from 60% to 63%, ppl have reason to use 1 hand sword now. Cause without Speed Infusion using 1h speargrave blunt wil have a little higher damage than 1h sword. On the other hand, PPL have already buit the end game weapon with 2hand sword they still have their profit cause they are still the strongest weapon with Speed Ifusion.

    1 More suggestion :D. Can you buff the attack speed of the crushed skull to fast(5). PPL can use it with a shield as a mid game weap until the end game.


    When the axe mastery change from 60% to 79%
    The fomula will change:
    from (Primary Stat*0.77 + Secondary Stat) * Weapon Attack / 100
    to (Primary Stat*0.8555 + Secondary Stat) * Weapon Attack / 100

    Unlike Paladins the main skill for bossing of Heros is Brandish. But this skill always have 1 stab and 1 swing.

    One Handed Axe/BW/Wand/Staff (Swinging)
    Primary: STR * 4.4
    Secondary: DEX


    One Handed Axe/BW/Wand/Staff (Stabbing)
    Primary: STR * 3.2
    Secondary: DEX


    =>The average: 4.4*0.5 + 3.2*0.5 = 3.8
    Primary: Str*3.8
    Secondary: Dex

    => the average damage:
    (Str*3.8*0.8555 + Dex) * Weapon Attack / 100
    =(Str*3.2509 + Dex) * Weapon Attack / 100
    compare to 1hand sword:
    (Str*3.08 + Dex) * Weapon Attack / 100

    Most ppl will say it axe will over damage sword because of 3.2509 is much higher than 3.08. But there is 1 thing remaining that is the att speed. The fastest 1hand axe speargrave is fast(5) while sword is fast(4) and a red katana fast(4) can even beat the Stonetooth fast(5) sword with onyx apple.

    -------------------------------------------------------
    For 2 hand Axe
    Two Handed Axe/BW (Swinging)
    Primary: STR * 4.8
    Secondary: DEX


    Two Handed Axe/BW (Stabbing)
    Primary: STR * 3.4
    Secondary: DEX


    => Average: 4.8*0.5 +3.4*0.5 = 4.1

    => The fomula:
    (Str*4.1*0.8555 + Dex) * Weapon Attack / 100
    = (Str*3.50755 + Dex) * Weapon Attack / 100
    compare to 2hand sword
    (Str*3.542 + Dex) * Weapon Attack / 100

    Now 3.50755 is nearly 3.542 and axe is little higher damage than sword

    2hand sword still win the 2 hand axe for the end game weap with onyx apple. PPL who have built their end game swords still have their advangtage. These change can help ppl have more fun to use axe but not make it too op. It can also create a new style of Hero like Hybrid Hero because of the cheap axe.

    In addition, can gm buff the attack speed of the 2 hand axes (except the 2hand axe speargrave).

    As a mage. I think that there is no reason to add more luk because of the int that equipment brings back can not compare with the int everytime lv up. Therefore i think of how about drop the luk of element staff down.

    When pple have play for a time, they will have a certain luk.
    19->21: scarlion hat
    10: monster book ring
    5: passion ring
    2: zombie army ring
    1: ellin ring
    4->5: Crimsonheart Cloak
    (2): Element Pierce
    21->33: horntail necklace
    mean: 62 -> 79 luk

    At lv 200, ppl can only add 999 point to int, and they will have 23point extra to luk.
    Therefore they will have 85 -> 102 luk. Because the max m.att of elemental staff is higher than elemental wand 33 matt. If the luk requirement are slow down ppl can statisfy some int to get extra m.att. Therefore I suggest to drop down the luk requirement of elemental staff (5-6-7) downto 120 luk than ppl have reason to add more luk and equip them. That also make some new playstyle such us lowluk mage (they can wear mage's equipment) instead of only no luk like now.
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 5
  2. ngrman
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    ngrman Stone Golem

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    You can add more than 999 points into a stat
     
  3. OP
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    bluelight
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    bluelight Dark Stone Golem

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    As far as i know that the highest stats can put is 999. But whatever, any things wrong? If the higher str the better sword is better than bw and axe?
     
  4. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    This is incorrect, you can continue to add points into a stat even after it hits 999 base.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. OP
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    bluelight
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    bluelight Dark Stone Golem

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    Yeah i havent reach that yes. But that is not the point i'm caring about. I mean about the more str the more sword is better
     
  6. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    I want a screenshot of your level 200 bishop to prove this.
     
  7. OP
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    bluelight
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    bluelight Dark Stone Golem

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    Ty. I mean to say it too XD
     
  8. Xydan
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    Xydan Chronos

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    That ... doesn't make any sense. How is the current situation, everyone using the exact same weapons, any more fun?
     
  9. Ever
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    Ever Mixed Golem

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    If all the other stats are 4, your primary stat can go up to 1018 at 200
     
  10. Motto
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    Motto Skelegon

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    This, given this buff the market would open a bit more.
    Axes are so meme-y that only meme heroes use them, but they still have mastery on swords if they want to do real work.

    Same could be said with polearms in DKs, but I'm sure there are more things to be thought about.

    A game is to give choices to people, not to direct people one selected path.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  11. Midnight
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    Midnight Skelegon

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    Ok I'm still stuck on the max 999 or not max, can anyone legit confirm if its capped at 999 or not?

    Edit- I don't mean "anyone legit", I mean "legit confirm" not trying be an ass
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  12. Hyoon
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    Hyoon Zakum Retired Staff

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    Did some damage testing, it's not that big of a DPM difference as most people would think.
    I counted at most a 750k-1m dpm difference on 2H weapons (with SI).
    And for the 1H cases they were almost identical (skull had times where it out dpmed speargrave)

    What i compared 2H, Dragon Flame, Dragon Battle Axe, Claymore
    What I compared 1H, Speargrave (sword), Skull, Dragon Axe

    So I would assume a comparison with 2H should be comparable to claymore with the buffed speed of speargrave 2H Axe and BW.
    Skull already compares with speargrave, and a compareable speargrave 1h axe should be relatively close too.

    Just based on my tests, while yes the niche weapons do a little less damage the damage lost isn't that much.
    People are just conformed to following trends of swords over these weapons, the tradeoff for the lower damage is cheaper scrolls/weapons.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. Xydan
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    Xydan Chronos

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    We can just do what another big name server (won't specify which) did, which is increase axe mastery to 75% for heroes, and fix the weapon speed diff. This brought made axes more than viable.
     
  14. Hyoon
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    Hyoon Zakum Retired Staff

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    one will always be better than the other, in which people will almost always go towards one side.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    For some reason I didnt see these comments until now, but here it is as you wish
    Maple0533.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Work Great Work x 2
  16. OP
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    bluelight
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    bluelight Dark Stone Golem

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    Then why did maplelegends try to balance be4???? You mean to deny every thing?
     
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    bluelight Dark Stone Golem

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    And maplelegends balanced the weak job for what? Why dont keep it the same to make it nostalgic?
     
  18. OP
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    bluelight Dark Stone Golem

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    Actually the balance also to make have more ppl to play the weak class, dont you see that with the balance there are more paladin, buccancer, marksman. The balance for weapon just like this, because it is weak and ppl dont tend to use it, if balance weapon than ppl have reason to use have more ppl use it??? What do you mean????
     
  19. OP
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    bluelight Dark Stone Golem

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    If it is more expensive than what happen? Fm have more things to find? Have u built the end game weap for blunts or axes yet? I saw a players who have to use megaphone to buy 10% scroll with the price 200k/1 because of ppl usually throw it away instead of sell it in FM? If buff blunts and axes, ppl have more things to sell, have more profits???
     
  20. Zooploop
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    Zooploop Master Chronos

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    I agree with the essence of the thread but it's tough because you don't want to simply equalize the damage of weapon types. In a ideal world axes would have a quality that sets them apart from swords for specific situations, but it's slightly more attack for a speed tier less of damage.

    Without changing damage formulas themselves my own suggestion is to change the Speargrave versions of axe weapons. They're actually pretty close to swords, but 1h Axe is 5 more damage and fast (5) instead of fast (4). Given how weak the rest of axes are in game I don't think it's too much to ask it to be fast (4) like the sword. The 2 handed axe can be upped from 115 to 118 max to reflect the 5 more max vs it's sword variant.

    With that at the least people who pick axes and stick to them can work to make themselves a strong end game weapon.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3

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