Is sketching another person's work a form of art?

Boxy · Oct 8, 2019

Hey everyone,

The art community in general has grown and there have been a lot of original contents with many types of genres, however there is a group where instead of creating original contents, they copy the style, characters and concept of the original work. Works done by this group could be a 80~95% replicate of the original work.

Some of these people give full credits to the original artist when their work is completed, others simply tweak the artwork and call it their own (which I understand it is actually stealing).

I would like to ask your opinion on this matter:
"Would you recognize a piece of work as a form of art from a person who duplicates someone else work and gives the original artist credits."

PS. Im sorry, non art student here. I did some research on goggle but there is no clear answer on this.

thugric · Oct 8, 2019

Your art can be inspired from the artwork of others; everyone’s gotta start somewhere as long as credit is given. Though in the long run, it is best to have your own unique style so you are able to inspire others

misqi · Oct 8, 2019

Hi! Great question—and to answer it: Yes, I would recognize it, but I would consider it reproduction-art, maybe fan-art (depending on what you're copying), or a study (to learn or practice your skills).

There's lots of reproduction artists that replicate oil paintings from old masters to order. While I can't post links yet, the wiki page for Oil Painting Reproduction writes "Oil painting reproductions are distinct from original oil painting such as are often of interest to collectors and museums. Oil painting reproduction can, however, sometimes be regarded as artworks in themselves."

In art school, students often make sketches or copies of well-known paintings or artists—they're generally called 'studies' as they are done for practice or to learn a new technique. As long as you're not passing it off as your own or trying to profit off of it, it's usually ok.

That being said, since we live in the era of fast and plentiful information. Many artists won't have the instant recognition that paintings from old masters do and the protection that comes with it. I think most would appreciate being asked before their work was redrawn.

If you're interested, searching 'art reproduction' might help you turn up some more opinions. There's also an interesting thread on Quora in answer to "What is the difference between and original artwork and a reproduction of it?"

Hope that helps!

Serin · Oct 8, 2019

This is going to be long~ Hopefully educational for some who are not familiar with illustrations and artwork.

The terms artists tend to use in the community are:
- Inspiration/Referencing (Accepted in the long run, as it goes along the line of LIGHT referencing. HEAVY referencing tends to be "Copying/Stealing")
- Eyeballing (You have a reference already-made; you copy the exact pose, lighting, etc. and it ends almost identical to the already-made image)
- Tracing/Copying/Stealing (We call this Art Theft/"Pakuri" in Japanese/Korean art community)

The general "unspoken rule" of the art industry/community, is that it's okay to reference artwork as long as it is not heavily identical to whatever you were/are referencing. Referencing however is a vague concept which tends to differ within the community the artist is in (for example, eyeballing and heavy referencing is OK in the Fine Arts community, etc., but not ok in the "animation" industry). Eyeballing, and tracing is generally frowned upon in any community that expects creativity (for easy understanding, let's say the "anime illustration" community.)

You can look up more specific definitions and viewpoints of each terminology depending on what art community you're interested in! Some people think even referencing is bad, but the thing is, no one can create 100% original content and is almost always inspired by something, thus making the term very iffy to some.

For your quote:
"Would you recognize a piece of work as a form of art from a person who duplicates someone else work and gives the original artist credits."

** As long as the original artist allows duplications of their artwork, then it's fine! However, if the artist knows nothing about it and someone comes across your artwork, they have the right to file a suit (for example, recently Billie Eilish lol LINK)

I know a lot of people in the art community, and am personally in it. I majored Western Arts in Highschool, with a minor in Asian-Oriental Arts, and currently hobby/freelancing Anime-styled illustrations and concept art; the one misconception non-artists have is: "duplicat(ing) someone else work and giv(ing) the original artist credit."

No, it does not work like this. I know it seems confusing and unfair to people who just like to google "Anime Girl" and copy/trace whatever art they find cause it's "online", but by doing so, you disrespect the artist. Usually, in order to "post" illustrations that are heavily referenced, traced, or whatever, it's etiquette and common sense to try to find the artist (Twitter, email, whatever) and make an effort to contact them to ask if you can use the artwork they spent their time creating. If you are unable to find the artist, then simply do not use the art.

WHY? Because some artists do not want their work to be duplicated, copied, or used in certain ways. (Please look up the history of Pepe the Frog for example.) Also, artists deserve proper credit if you DO decide to use their artwork(s). Please read this: LINK

All in all, there is another art community that solely bases their time on creating what we call "Bases", which are "Naked Sprites". You can trace, or draw over them without being shunned upon in the community. Some are able to use for COMMERCIAL use ($), whereas some are created for creative-commons/personal use (no $). Again, each base has a creator [artist], so it's best you abide by their terms.

I think that's all the information I can give for now without going overboard cause there is a LOT of misconceptions about credit in the art/creator community. I hope this helped a bit!

Edit* Also here are some links about Referencing/Tracing/etc.
LINK 1
LINK 2

**Edit 2 Since I didn't even answer the question lol**

Naerobi · Oct 8, 2019

I'm an art student and it's a known thing that plagiarism is a big No-no, naturally. But theres a very thin line when it comes to referencing/being inspired and downright stealing. In a lot of cases now if we're talking in a business context, the simple use of an idea that was formed by someone else, and then replicated by another is already a form of stealing that a person could be sued for. But again, the debate is that an artist or content creator can simply just be inspired by the original work. I think this relates to things like fashion and photography as well in terms of style and design.

It takes a lot of effort and time for an artist to build up a certain style or their own trademark. And because there's such a large community on it and so many things are driven by aesthetics and style, it becomes difficult to truly say something is 100% original. A lot of times, even for myself, the need to look at what has already been created in order to create something new and work upon it is very present. If you think of it historically and study the changes in art over the eras; every art movement (We're thinking Andy Warhol with Pop Art or the whole 70s retro flower power vibe) are all cause and effect to each other whether in expressing and improving the art prior to that era, or challenging it. Think my point here is that; for artists to create something new, there is a point in time where they would be affected by other artists as well. Everyone has a favourite artist or creator. It's quite natural that would be the case for many.

Reference is Key is something I've been taught. I think as an art student, again we have to start from somewhere and what better way than to learn from those and study the ones that came before us. I study 3D animation and Graphic design, looking at trends and understanding what is pleasing and not quite as attractive is a major part in creative roles.

also the really old saying that Stealing is a form of flattery for a lot of artists has become more untrue with social media. Of course, this is an opinion. To me, it's just the same as a person using a really good looking person's photo on dating profiles and just catfishing. I know of so many people who have had their artworks stolen and shared like their own – This is just frowned upon.

So to answer your question:
"Would you recognize a piece of work as a form of art from a person who duplicates someone else work and gives the original artist credits."

No. Credit is given where credit is due. An artist could use the artwork and try and replicate it with his/her own efforts. But it is only right to mention where the original idea derives from. Say you go for an interview and you present this piece of work to your employer and they think that the whole piece is original and created by you – from the style, the line work, the idea, everything. Could you truly be proud of that?

However, I would acknowledge the skill and level of attention to detail a person puts into recreating that piece. That, is probably something to admire.

Personally, I could never be proud of a work that I don't think is at least 90% mine. I may be inspired to use someone's colour palette or try to mimic a style, but ultimately, what I create is my own and with my own ideas. Can I say that it's completely original? Most likely no. But I would still be inclined to share where I got my inspiration from and how I came to create my artwork.

I hope my input on this lovely topic gave you a little insight too :") Thank you for the question!

Naerobi · Oct 8, 2019

The bigger debate for me is: Is it wrong if an idea (The style, the format, the look) that has been constructed by one creator, is used by another creator even though its been tweaked yet still heavily influenced?

Here's some examples: Fast fashion is basically ripping things from the catwalk and selling it at a portion of the price or a photographer uses the exact same setting, lighting and concept for a photo shoot from another photographer. Probably the only difference is in the models and maybe a few props.

*I know this kind of deviates a little from artists and artworks but the point of it is the same I believe. I just thought to share a few more ways this whole idea of duplicating could be played into.

Boxy · Oct 10, 2019

Thank you for answering Thugric, Misqi, Serin and Naerobi.

I understand more about art plagiarism from your inputs and articles provided. I would like to focus on the anime/manga art community. While there are rules/guide regarding using other artworks, copying popular anime/manga into a different medium are getting common.

For example, the case mentioned in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RemR1X8ujM

Works like the one mentioned in the video is still popular in platform like Instagram (I'm not sure about this but is it only Instagram?) because they do exact replicate of a digital art but in a different art medium/art style (E.g Digital art to pencil/color) and people who are not familiar with artworks or illustration support pages like this because "It look nice". Some "Re-post" accounts even re-post the copier works.

In the art community however, there seems to be a grey area on what the copier should do. Some said that the copier should have credited the original creator more (For example, linking to the original artist work/page instead of just mentioning their name), others say he should not have posted it at all, others acknowledging the copier's work but not his creativity.

Is there no clear way to handle works like this or is it all up to the copier's conscious (The copier decides if he want to contact the artist to ask for permission, not posting/publicizing his work or linking the original artist page in his works) and the original artist's leniency (The original artist decides if he wants to let the person off, informing him to take it down or edit his comments to give more credit to the original artist, getting a legal action against the copier).

misqi · Oct 10, 2019

Hi Boxy! Just wanted to preface by saying I appreciate your honest curiosity about this topic.

While I'm personally not active in anime/manga communities, I think there are best practices that can be referenced from established industries in art/music/film/design/etc. The creativity and effort that goes into creating anime/manga art is no less significant, even if may be on a smaller scale.

Based on those, there is no grey area. You must ask permission from the creator of the content, buy a license, or face possible legal action.* In the case of online art—that would mean contacting the creator, and asking them 1) For permission to copy a piece of art 2) How they would like to be credited. That's up to the content creator, not the copier.

For individual artists, legal action is often not feasible or affordable. Which means, yes, even with all the best practices in the world it comes down to the individual to act on and enforce them. My advice would be to decide where you personally stand on this. I'm glad you posted the link. I think a good way to decide where you stand is to read the comments from artists who have been impacted and how they feel about this whole business.

P.S. While this genre of copy-art might be popular, it doesn't mean it's right or not hurtful to the original artist. I would not use popularity to justify the integrity any action.
P.P.S. I'm not saying to never copy art ever! Just ask for permission first, and respect the artist's wishes.

*There are fair-use allowances in each industry that allow exceptions. I'm not an expert so Google will be able to tell you more about this than I ever could.

Serin · Oct 10, 2019

Anime/Manga art community is something I’m more familiar with!
THIS GONNA BE SUPER LONG! WHY DO I ALWAYS WRITE SO MUCH pepehands

For a general overview of the “anime/manga art community”, I came from the Pixiv/MangaBullet era, which then moved onto Deviantart -> Tumblr -> Toyhouse -> Twitter -> Now some people post via Instagram because of the wide range of audience(s)!

TLDR; Instagram is horrible in terms of copyright and respect for content creators especially for the anime/manga illustrators. At least in Twitter/DeviantART there used to/is still a creative-commons license, but in places where Instagram where anyone can just rip off/copy/repost/steal another artists’ work (and generally a photo), it’s at the artists’ own risk. A lot of artists tend to have an Instagram to promote their artwork since it has a wide range of audience, and ofc since more people go on it now than Twitter.

Instagram is full of artists, but also full of regular people who do not know the general (most usually unwritten) rules of a “community” that was already there. Some people assume it is okay to “copy” another artist’s artwork under the impression as Naerobi mentioned — cause they think it's a form of “flattery”. In the Anime/Manga art community, this is usually NOT taken as flattery but flat out art-theft, if not “approved” or acknowledged by the original content creator. More-so if proper credit isn’t given.

Rather than call it a definite gray area, it’s exactly as you state: the “copier’s conscious”. But at the same time, to other illustrators, it’s common sense and etiquette towards one another.

Gray areas tend to be such: Redrawing a screencap from a licensed/copyrighted series; for example, you can google “anime redraw meme”. Artists tend to add the hashtag or keywords #redraw or #meme because they KNOW that in the general scenario, if someone were to copy that pose, lighting, etc. and post without certain keywords, they would get flamed for it. The gray area of “copying” usually tends to lean towards fanart.

I’m going a bit off track here but:
Imagine working hard on an artwork, only for it not to be really recognized. But someone else “redraws” your work without your knowledge, or proper credit, yet has a higher follower count—they will receive all of the praise (whether they put in effort or not) as you were the one who thought of EVERYTHING while they just flat out copied it cause it was there.

Not only in illustration, but for the music industry as well. Going off track again, there’s another part of the anime-community that spends their time making music under the category/genre of Nightcore.” Yes, they took the time to edit the music, add a bit of remixes here and there, but imagine someone not giving credit or heck, they gave the credit but people like the Nightcore version better, so the Nightcore creator gets all of the glory at the end when all they did was tweak and change a bit of things. Imagine if the music producer was a small-time producer, and not a giant label/signed one.

Gray area for this is as mentioned; already licensed/copyrighted music, like a Disney remix as “everyone already knows it’s Disney”. But what about individual producers who create their own content, only for someone to re-mix/nightcore it?

These are basically examples of I guess how re-post/re-mix/re-draws, etc. are taken in the community. Sure, people could come and give these copiers all the glory and support them for stealing (assuming they did NOT get permission in the first place), but if you were the artist/producer, wouldn’t you want these type of people to come to you first and at least ask you for your permission? Especially if you love/admire one’s art so much as to want to try and redraw it yourself.

Unfortunately, people aren’t too educated or compassionate about how much damage reposting, editing, and stealing another person’s content brings, cause their excuses are usually “If you didn’t want it to be copied then you shouldn’t have posted it ONLINE for everyone to SEE and STEAL.”

At the end, you can say it’s all up to the type of person (again, the “copier’s conscious”) one wants to be. But I know for sure in the Anime/Manga art community, such pakuri (stealing/copying/reposting) is frowned upon, and usually the “pakuri hunters” or “white knights” of whatever artist(s) you copy will make sure your art life is brought down if it’s not OK’d by the artist they support.

Individual artists as misqi mentioned, do not have the ability to take legal action, but that does not make it OK for someone to copy. In the legal aspect, most artists DO have the general right to a creative-commons license, so maybe you can look into that if you want to do redraws. Licenses differ from country to country, but so far I know illustrations posted in the US, Japan and Korea do have a license once posted onto sites like Twitter, DeviantART, Instagram, etc., thus if someone really wanted to sue, it would only be one call away.

Anyways, sorry for the long post, I'm currently in the middle of a lawsuit regarding such type of people (which is why ive been MIA in staff work oops sorry ily staff), so I thought I could give a bit of insight to how little people know or think "copying" someone's work can be without knowing the actual consequence. Let me tell you: people who enable art theft in any form need to realize that in court or in a written agreement, no one will take "well I credited the artist lol" as a viable excuse.

Boxy · Oct 14, 2019

Serin said: ↑

Imagine working hard on an artwork, only for it not to be really recognized. But someone else “redraws” your work without your knowledge, or proper credit, yet has a higher follower count—they will receive all of the praise (whether they put in effort or not) as you were the one who thought of EVERYTHING while they just flat out copied it cause it was there.
Click to expand...

I think while the copier may copy the work of another artist in honor of the original artist or because he like the picture. If the copier really appreciate the artist work, the last thing the copier wants would be the artist whose work he admire so much, flaming/gets angry because of him even after multiple warnings. All the best on the lawsuit, hope it is going well for you.

Thanks for sharing guys. I be using this discussion/concept shared as a foundation when I meet such questions again (I think too much sometimes).

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Is sketching another person's work a form of art?

Boxy Chronos

thugric Capt. Latanica Retired Staff

misqi Orange Mushroom

Serin Game Moderator Staff Member Game Moderator

Naerobi Chronos Retired Staff

Naerobi Chronos Retired Staff

Boxy Chronos

misqi Orange Mushroom

Serin Game Moderator Staff Member Game Moderator

Boxy Chronos

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Is sketching another person's work a form of art?

Boxy Chronos

thugric Capt. Latanica Retired Staff

misqi Orange Mushroom

Serin Game Moderator Staff Member Game Moderator

Naerobi Chronos Retired Staff

Naerobi Chronos Retired Staff

Boxy Chronos

misqi Orange Mushroom

Serin Game Moderator Staff Member Game Moderator

Boxy Chronos

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