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HERO - Engrage Skill buff

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by JDPJHC, Jan 15, 2020.

  1. JDPJHC
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    JDPJHC Mixed Golem

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    9:31 AM
    JDPJHC
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    This was brought up to me by Eiji, but the 4th job Hero skill Enrage, which is basically a carbon copy of the bowman's Concentration skill, has an 8 minute cooldown as opposed to Concentration's 4 minute cooldown.
    Not sure if the skill is supposed to be like this, but I would like to know what others think.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  2. cakesogood
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    cakesogood Windraider

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    i think it should be buffed to 50wa and be a passive skill
     
  3. OP
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    JDPJHC
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    JDPJHC Mixed Golem

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    NEED THIS HERO BUFF PLZ
     
  4. Precel
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    Precel Zakum Retired Staff

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    I always find it perplexing when people compare two seemingly similar skills on two different jobs. They are different jobs. They have different quirks and while it may seem like concentration and enrage should have same utility, the job balance in the big picture may disagree.

    Now, I'm not saying Heroes and Bowmen are balanced as is, but I'm saying comparing enrage and concentration shouldn't be the reason for changing the skills. Instead, please suggest based on the entire job balance.
     
  5. OP
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    JDPJHC
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    JDPJHC Mixed Golem

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    well said i suppose. back to the drawing board
     
  6. OP
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    JDPJHC
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    JDPJHC Mixed Golem

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    LOL tbh our party buff is basically worse than bear considering bear affects the whole map and lasts 15 minutes. Even heroes prefer bear over their own rage.It would be nice if we had SOMETHING that cant be easily replaced by a 300nx item
     
  7. Sepio61
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    Sepio61 Chronos

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    Sepio16
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    I think if Enrage is going to have an 8min cool down, it should at least stack with Rage. Otherwise Enrage’s 26 wa isn’t that much better than Rage’s 20 wa to have to wait 8 minutes for the cool down to end.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Zooploop
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    Zooploop Master Chronos

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    I agree but these aren't seemingly similar, it's the same skill except Bowmasters also use less MP during it. Prior to it being buffed (which I still am not entirely sure why it was), it was a 6 minute cooldown with a 3 minute duration. That's 3 minutes of downtime on the skill. Enrage which is the same as before, is 8 minute cooldown with a 4 minute duration. That's 4 minutes of downtime. So before concentrate was still a bit better but ranged classes in general will be higher DPS so it's no big deal. However now Concentrate is a 4 minute cooldown with a 3 minute duration. Meaning there's only 1 minute where you aren't going to have it up.

    This was the explanation given for the buff back when it went out;
    Explanation - Since concentrate will override most attack buffs and can be dispelled, reducing cooldown will be a QoS change that reduces awkward gaps between attacks without buffs.

    Seeing as Enrage is the same attack, and a longer cooldown, how does this also not apply to it? Heros are also the most selfish class in terms of damage, providing no party utility that you couldn't replicate with a cash shop item. We do nothing but attack, yet Enrage is a much worse copy of Concentrate now.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  9. Precel
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    Precel Zakum Retired Staff

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    I think you missed my point. Sure they provide exactly same effects, but it's not the same class so it's not weird for Hero and BM to have different utilities.

    Using your example, the argument for Enrage buff shouldn't be that "Enrage should be buffed because Concentrate was buffed." Instead, the argument should be "Enrage should be buffed because it will override most attack buffs and can be dispelled, reducing cooldown will be a QoL change that reduces awkward gaps between attacks without buffs," which is the same exact phrasing for Concentrate buff except I just changed it to Enrage.

    It's a subtle difference, but this makes the suggestion way more reasonable. And that's what I'm advocating for. Whether this change is plausible or not is another discussion.

    Again, I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with buffing Enrage, I'm just nitpicking about reasonings behind it.
     
  10. Zooploop
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    Zooploop Master Chronos

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    I've always stated since Concentrate was changed that any reasoning used for it can be applied to Enrage too, and as I said taking the class balance into account, Heros are a class that only provide damage. Bowmasters have a valueable party buff, and deal the the 2nd most single target damage of all classes. I was agreeing with what you said about reasoning, I gave mine.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    Sounds like concentrate should get nerfed to equal enrage
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  12. Soniii
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    Soniii Mixed Golem

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    Should have just left all the classes the same. Now everyone whines and wants their class buffed. But I agree I think enrage should have a similar cd to concentrate. Why was concentrate buffed in the first place?
     
  13. cakesogood
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    cakesogood Windraider

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    Enrage should be buffed because it will override most attack buffs such as party bear/rage/ and can be dispelled, reducing cooldown will be a QoL change that reduces awkward gaps between attacks without buffs such as in Dunas boss where u get dispelled every few seconds. And in horntail where you get mass dispelled at random times. This makes enrage pointless most of the time.

    Why should we buff enrage? Because it is not worth to invest 30 skill points into it for 4min cooldown when using attack use buffs give better results.

    Most people don't max enrage until they are lvl 170+ as you will have to sacrifice a lot of good buffs

    Heroes are a selfish class that provides nothing to the party due to party bear providing the same result. So, having a 4th job skill where u invest 30sp into it, making it consistently active should be quite fair for balance.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  14. fredaaaaa
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    fredaaaaa Brown Teddy

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    Would like to add that when using the enrage skill, you will use up your charged up combos.
    Hence you need extra time to recharge the combos to get back the hero's attack
     
  15. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Yeah instead of whining for buffs All of us non nightlord players should have just made a nightlord instead.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  16. asdfjkliang
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    asdfjkliang Selkie Jr.

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    Enrage is such an underwhelming skill to the point that I would rather max everything else except enrage. There is too much SP investment for the skill. You need at least 20 points in enrage for it to be better than rage. I didn't even bother doing the quest to get enrage. You are better off maxing monster magnet, rush, and guardian instead of maxing enrage for an extra +6 attack!!
     
  17. starinthesky
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    starinthesky Mano

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    Unpopular opinion amongst heroes but I feel that enrage should not be touched. It is meant to be a tiny perk at late levels when they maxed out their other essential skills, not a replacement for rage. They can just stick to rage during the "downtime" after being dispelled.

    Heroes should not receive further buffs or any incease in QoL simply because they are meant to be a beginner-friendly class, and comparing heroes to nls and bms is unfair. Heroes doesn't need to wash as much, and are able to deal decent damage with underwhelming gears.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  18. cakesogood
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    cakesogood Windraider

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    Hero killer stain wants to know your location
     
  19. cakesogood
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    cakesogood Windraider

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    Hello gamemasters, has been few months, if don't want to buff hero, can at least make it so that rage does not override party bear buff.

    also, may make enrage buff override party bear buff temporary and when enrage runs out party bear wa buff effect is still applied. This is so you do not have to rage and ruin party bear for the party members.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Creative Creative x 1

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