Mannies, oh why mannies...

Sorry but I'm a librarian.
I've explored most of the maps available for people for lvl 1 to 120.

Truckers -> MP3/GS2/GS5 is the only explainable way of meta training (mages), as in get cash and exp at the same times for LVL 40-80.

I've tried Roids, they're not bad, but they require a better EXP/HP ratio, because Slimy or Pac Pinky are just too much better.
Forest of Golems is garbage, yes it's doable, but you won't love your life after training there 50-60.
Galloperas at higher lvl, but yeah, another map that needs some kind of

https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/training-guide.14242/
Here's a guide from 2017, this is literally pre-mannies discovery.
Have fun grinding with those maps and not wanting to kys

 

There are maps out there that break the mold. People are just not used to formulating multiple attacker parties with HS. This is why mannes was heavily favored - it requires no party and no HS to get leech-equivalent exp gains. There are other maps out there that can yield a higher eph as long as you have multiple attackers.

The problem with mannes was they gave out way too high of an Exp/HP ratio, which allowed for this solo play. Because of this, you can clear most of the mobs each spawn while solo. There are maps out there that spawn more mobs that you wouldn't be able to clear solo, but with a party, you could.

 

Windraiders are better than ghost ship for almost all classes with mobbing abilities except I/Ls, and mannequins are if anything much better for single target attackers like assassins and bandits now. CDs is also good at the higher end of the range.

 

Imagine a Windraider party with a rotating HS.
Each attacker takes one platform and focuses killing all of their spawn before the next spawn arrives. In theory, windraiders would yield a much higher output of exp per spawn than mannes, assuming everybody is clearing their platform each wave. A priest rotates and HS's each platform during rebuffs, or everybody can come together on one central point and rebuff that way.

This is how we used to run grind parties in GMS bera back when Ludi was all we had.

 

But we won't, because
A) the population isn't big enough to guarantee a full party anywhere at your convenience unlike GMS
B) priests are training at gs2, then hime, then buying leech to 120

Why must we imagine these fantastic hypotheticals when reality is far more cruel. I can't even find a priest for hime consistently, let alone one willing to do windraiders along w/ 3 other attackers.

 

1. 1342 people are online right now. You get free smegas to formulate parties, and there is a discord channels to seek parties. Learn to utilize your tools. Add people who are your level range to your buddy list. You guys are complaining that there is no community in grinding. This is because you guys are confined in the meta and are not looking to take the steps to form a new one. See an issue? Go fix it with what you've got instead of complaining.
2. Priests wouldn't be training at gs2 or himes if they were getting invited to these types of exp-efficient parties. It wasn't uncommon to see mid-70 priests getting invited to parties, and if you have a community of people to depend on (guild, buddy list, discord) to grind with, then it'll set itself organically.


There's so much contradicting irony here. People complaining about no community in grinding, yet are too lazy to create a grinding community. People asking for advice on what other maps would be viable and then saying "that'll never happen."

Right.

 

But why are we pushing for party grinding????? It’s there for people who want to make use of it but why punish people for wanting to solo grind? Like I said before in my post, bossing is what we grind for. Most people don’t grind for the sake of grinding. And most bosses are usually not done solo.

It sounds like you miss the nostalgia of party grinding but stop pushing others to play like you want them to!

 

You make it sound like summoning 4 attackers and a priest with HS is as easy as ordering a pizza. I suppose if I don't have a large buddy list, or if I don't belong to a large guild, or if I play at odd hours, I might as well not train. Furthermore, forcing everyone to party grind further emphasizes the need for HS to grind effectively. Solo-play is already hard enough - manni was one of the few effective solo maps - I'm not sure why we need to make it even harder.

And if the point of nerfing mannequins was actually about promoting party play, then why are archmages and leeching still a thing? The very definition of a mage/bishop and leeching is to completely circumvent any kind of grinding, party or otherwise. Nerfing mannies and leaving leeching untouched is like complaining about poor people "taking all the tax money" as the uber wealthy hoover up every last dollar from their worker serfs.

 

Have you tried it yet?

 

Just a thought I've had: Pre-nerf mannies were like the Maple Weapon of training maps - way better than vanilla weapons and seemingly broken by comparison, but not unhealthy because they benefit new, upcoming players far more than old. Legends could use more maps like that.
not saying that mannies weren't OP - could definitely have used some balancing/toning down.

 

No. Because I don't have four attackers and an HS I can call on a moments notice. Does that mean I shouldn't play the game?

 

They were nerfed to not have aggro so that people couldn't afk summon farm. The EXP/HP ratio is still the same. The people who are complaining in this thread are complaining that it got slowed down b/c now they now have to walk over to the mob to kill it.

 

Except you can formulate a 6-12 man bossing party, right?

 

Have you ever played a warrior before? Literally the "walking to the mob to kill it" part is what makes warriors so tedious/slow to grind. I suppose if we made genesis/meteor/blizzard melee abilities, you would argue that they are "still the same".

I didn't realise that logging in to grind for some exp required the same approach/effort as creating a 12-man bossing party for Horntail. You would think that the rewards would be commensurate then, except grinding at mannies never gave me a skillbook or pendant.

 

I have two heroes, a paladin, and a DK. Guess what - Maplestory has a cool feature called party buffs - and these buffs sometimes speed you up so you don't run to your mobs so slowly. You can also scroll speed shoes if you're that slow.

Yeah, the rewards for grinding efficiently is leveling up so that you can get to your bosser levels faster. That's the reward. You guys are literally complaining that the nerf to Mannes slowed your eph down and are rejecting any suggestion given to you saying it's too difficult. There are other viable solo grind maps out there. You guys just haven't spent the time to even look.

 

People aren't rejecting suggestions. People who can afford to have moved to CDs as suggested. I personally am saying that just because you have people you can reliably call on to grind with does not mean you should expect everyone else, especially the new players, to do so too.

Guess what nerfing mannequins has done? It eliminated summon farming. And warriors are scrambling to save up for leech more. SO much for the intention of having them explore and grind at non-meta maps.

The option for party grinding is there. But stop trying to push people towards that!

Be honest. Did you grind at non-meta maps to 120? Or bought leech?
I did not buy leech but I put in 3-4 hrs per level at manns. Let's not be hypocritical. Preaching something and doing something else.

 

Ironic ... weren't you also the one that said "make people do their own research?" So what is your suggestion then, besides "options exist, but go look for it yourself!"

 

I've bought maybe 2 hours of leech in my entire time here on this server. That was for level 119-120 on my first hero.
All of my other characters have been self-trained or self-leeched. I don't believe in buying leech, but I'm not opposed to selling it.

What Experience per Hour do you guys think is acceptable for a warrior at lvls 80-110?
I just ran a quick test on a somewhat non-meta map with EPM 5 on an unfunded lvl 109 DK. No HS. 3.8m EPH, or 23% an hour. That's about 4 hours a level at level 109. WITHOUT HS.

I wasn't even clearing 1/4th of the map's spawn at each respawn time. It'd be much, MUCH higher with a priest and 2 or 3 attackers.

The funnier part is that while I was testing this, I ran into several people grinding there already. What this tells me is that while the in-game community seems to have somewhat figured it out already, it looks those who come on forums to complain about 'inefficiency' or 'unfair nerfs' are the ones who probably haven't tried very hard to figure it out themselves.

I don't wish to hand people things on a silver spoon.

Xydan - reread my post. I offered viable strategies to getting that exp efficiency in those 'hell' levels without having to buy leech and without breaking your bank. It's up to you guys to figure it out by diving into the community and asking around.

Edit:

So I was curious as to what the numbers would look like with party buffs, but I didn't want to bring all my mules over so I tested my lvl 109 DK at the same aforementioned map with FM HS and got 4.9m EPH over an EPM 5.
This is with FM HS - meaning no exp mule in the same map to give party bonus.

Edit2:

Nvm it's even better than I thought. 5.4m eph

 

If you're telling them to "ask around", you should probably answer them when they are asking you. I have no horse in this race, but saying some mystery alternatives exist, and then trying to hide it when asked is kinda toxic.

 

Did you ask them if they would buy leech after they finish saving mesos up?
Do you think they will stick around for the next 100 hours or so grinding at that map to reach 4th job? And grind some more till at least 130? A few might. Just because you saw them there for 5 minutes doesn’t prove anything.

The reason I’m vocal about this is because people are judging people for being ‘lazy’ for wanting to have the optimal grinding experience.

Like, how did you even decide what qualifies as ‘lazy’? Less than 3 hours of grinding is easy? Or 4 hours? Or maybe 8? Why do you even care if they level fast? However I do care if new players aren’t able to feel tangible progress and that negatively affects their grinding experience. I’m not affected by this change but I’m not going to sit on my hypothetical throne and say “but this is actually very efficient - too bad you guys are too lazy to bother to try and find people to achieve that.” Because it is an ideal situation. Not practical at all - especially amongst newer players.