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Cru and Captain racist caricatures

Discussion in 'Rejected' started by Kevin Truong, Oct 4, 2020.

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  1. Tate
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    Tate Capt. Latanica

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    I believe we have stronger, more pertinent issues to discuss. So let us not get bogged down by wanting to wipe out history so much that it comes across as a form of acceptable genocide.

    I'm not saying it can't be perceived as inherently racist, nor am i saying it actually is racist. Everyone has their own strong opinions on the subject and I would prefer that, as a community, we choose positivity over negativity and not start getting into logical fallacies.

    At the end of the day, its up to the individual to decide what is good or bad. Is it not racist to you?, okay. understandable. Is it racist to you? okay. equally understandable. But changing things to be less racist to you will not guarantee that racism as an entire issue is solved. We all have our biases, so the least we can do is learn to live with one another, as best as we can.

    That's not to say that the discussion should not continue. We should have amicable discourse because it's important to communicate these feelings, but we should also take note that not everyone can be satisfied, and not everyone shares everyone elses views. Life is not an echo chamber, and the sooner you realise this, the better off you will be.

    Also for what its worth seeing as context is king, I am an asian kiwi who was raised in America, Germany, Australia, and Russia. I've spent most of my life growing up and talking to a hodge-podge of people of various colours, schools of thought, and personalities, I've faced discrimination for the colour of my skin, how stereotypically bad i am at math, and how the list of languages I speak does not include my supposed "mother" tongue (read: chinese).

    Again, about my background. i'm not trying to play the "relatable" card or even trying to convince anyone that i myself am not racist. I've had my fair share of ignorance, and i've learnt to accept myself for who i am, and the history of the world for bringing us all here, now, in this moment in time, reading this thread, thinking these thoughts.

    Take care, and remember to stay hydrated.

    P.S This is unrelated but I'm inclined to bring up this video to see what people think.

    without context, and without reading the caption, would anyone say this was racist?

    https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFrea...an_children_seeing_a_white_man_for_the_first/
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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  3. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    upload_2020-10-4_15-34-26.png

    upload_2020-10-4_15-36-3.png
    upload_2020-10-4_15-36-57.png
    upload_2020-10-4_15-37-26.png
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    upload_2020-10-4_15-43-14.png
    upload_2020-10-4_15-47-34.png
     
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  4. ngrman
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    ngrman Stone Golem

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    also gotta rename nibergen
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Midnight
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    Midnight Skelegon

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    Are pirates not allowed to be black or are black people not allowed to pirates?

    Why can't we say nib anymore? Can we still say nub and nob?
     
  6. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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  7. OP
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    Kevin Truong
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    Kevin Truong Red Snail

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    First off I want to say Kimberly is doing a great job.

    I think some of these responses really show what kind of people they truly are. I hope you guys grow out of it one day. Kind of sad actually.

    This is clearly blackface I don't think we can argue around that. I really loved the fruity pebbles version of the sprites, they were really well done.

    Changing the color of the mob should in no way change any kind of nostalgia and would actually make the game more inviting for everyone to play. Which is the point. For us to come together and play the mushroom game.

    I'm not trying to fix racism... that's impossible. Saying that racism is ok bc that's how it was back then... that is just weird.
     
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  8. cakesogood
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    cakesogood Windraider

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    lol this is funny thread. should make a rainbow coloured captian crew. solves everything
     
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  9. Skuire
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    Skuire Nightshadow

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    On a more serious note, do you really reckon the pirates are supposed to be a 'blackface' stereotype? I always figured they were some type of fish. Not sure if the quest lore mentions what they are, but I sincerely doubt that they were intended to be humans.
    [​IMG]
    Their buddy is an alligator by the way, if that tells us anything.

    OP, you're the only person I've ever seen to point out these mobs as "racist." Never once in all my time at PPQ have they incited any comment related to race or racial stereotypes.

    EDIT:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Monster Book entries for Kru and Captain describe them as "unknown figure"/"unidentifiable monster." Weird. I wonder what the original Korean said about them.
    "...contributes to pillaging the humans while sailing the sea."
    So this tells us they aren't explicitly intended to be human.
     
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  10. iccqqq
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    iccqqq Dark Stone Golem

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    wtf is this thread
     
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  11. PandaOnPanda
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    PandaOnPanda Timer

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    I had always thought those mobs weren't human and instead some weird creatures, but who knows. Neckson did also put this Elf on the snowman Christmas event map
    upload_2020-10-4_18-53-20.png
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
  12. OP
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    Kevin Truong
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    Kevin Truong Red Snail

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    "yeah maple is a bit racist actually =)!~... people who don't see it simply don't have the mind to see how racist these giant corporate companies can be.. they just did what they intended to do, Make a racist things look normal x)... a good example would be the Pirates at Herb Town (Kru, captains).. Their black and have thick lips.. Also, In the justice patch (coming soon) The new Job has a 3-4 maids, one of them happens to be black and is made to look ugly, lazy, and moody compared to the other ones.. Plus her name is Chocolat!~.. I mean.. Really now if that's not racist then the slave age was not racist either..lolz"

    https://www.gamekiller.net/threads/...vironments-racist-stereotypical.269350/page-2

    posted in 2012

    I actually didn't remember this mob that well when I was playing as a kid. As an adult and now college educated. I clearly saw black face. I mean if you don't know what black face is... just google it.

    Here I'll do it for you guys.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=bla...Jg3IEHWdnBN4Q_AUoAXoECAsQAw&biw=2133&bih=1041

    I was running PPQ today on my stream and I was shocked when I noticed. Many people agreed in chat and suggested that I post here. Boom here I am.
     
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  13. Althariisa
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    Althariisa Slimy

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    When this game was made, i think they werent racist complains about any kind of mobs, as they were accepted by the players in they way they are designed. in that time the eyes of the people were totally diferent in the way we didnt gave any thought about what we are looking, this is just a cartoon, and i think there wasnt any extracurricular meaning in the made of the kru and captain behind. we should not try to modernize a thing that was made 17 years ago when the designer didnt had any idea about the modernism we have now, no way they could predict the change of ettic we affronting this new decade.

    We should not put the ettic on things that doesnt have something important to do. those cartoons doenst have the purpose to hurt you, dont have any reason to feel attacked by them. the color of the skin doesnt mean anything, in fact marking a think as racial because this minucity, its more even racist than the thing you re pointing off because you re admiting the thing its just right like the offensive way you re thinking off when it really dont have any meaning on it.

    This is just a game, no way a game have a purpose to offend ppl in a racial way that maybe your modern eyes are pointing on you. believe me, the thought its agravated if you think its offensive because just a color of a skin. you should keep in mind the idea of equality and balance of the statements of modern age. sorry if im not updated to the modern ettic but i think its wrong to discern a drama because you feel something is racist. have more tolerance.
     
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  14. OP
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    Kevin Truong
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    Kevin Truong Red Snail

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    Just trying to suggest a good thing for the community and I am extremely disappointed in the response (from the community).

    shoutout to Kimmy and joota

    I'm done here. Happy mapling :^)
     
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  15. Althariisa
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    Althariisa Slimy

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    Have a nice day.
     
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  16. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    What an absolutely ignorant response that perfectly encapsulates your hypocrisy and virtue signaling.
    Way to assume that everybody here is a native English speaker.
     
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  17. Daviiid
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    Daviiid Mano

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    It's just a mushroom game...
     
  18. Midnight
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    Midnight Skelegon

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    Segregation and laws regarding racial equality have made good progress over the years, and racial differences have become more and more socially acceptable with less people being assholes to eachother. Until social media became a thing. Now, some very bored people have a platform to start debates about whether a traffic signal is racist. And now we have a 2010-2020 race war going on, with more people becoming racist and more people becoming ultra racially sensitive just feeding eachother. So the progress we've made is getting ruined.

    There is an amazing amount of different physical features and colors of the monsters in Maplestory. It is blatantly obvious that this is just an accident made by an artist. Holy crap, are we gonna hunt them down and sue them for emotional abuse too? It is better for all of us to just chill out, and quit scanning for anything that could possibly be racist or offensive. If it's bad, as in intentional and/or likely to actually offend someone, you know, then it'll get the attention it deserves naturally by being more than a tiny little thing. It would be progress to recognize and reject such an issue. This is not progress, this is just throwing fuel in the 2020 fire. Now we've got an almost 3 page long debate on whether this barely noticeable accident is racist or not, causing division. Marvelous! I'm definitely with Kimmy on this one. This really is disappointing.
     
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  19. Pundit
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    Pundit Pink Teddy

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    I'm not going to address this from a technical standpoint (i.e. changing it) because I don't know how computer games work. I'm actually not even very good at playing them.

    But from a social standpoint I have two thoughts:
    1. The "what about every dark monster" argument is a false equivalency. OP is talking specifically about how these two mobs replicate stereotypical imagery that has an explicitly racial history. This isn't about like dark yetis -- those are yetis. All good on the yeti front. The yetis (and balrogs and etc.) aren't recirculating an image that is explicitly harmful and used to mobilize public (read: White) sentiment against the Black population. (The argument in OPs point was never "their skin is dark." It was "they replicate this specific image that is racist.")
    2. Blackface originally circulated in comedy and cartoons. Leaving these images in "unserious" media certifies them as acceptable by recirculating -- keeping them in people's minds.​

    Re: like fears over the PC police? I've personally found it's easier to be inclusive and welcoming to people and not do things that make them uncomfortable and not want to be around me/my mushroom game (if I had a mushroom game).
     
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  20. Althariisa
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    Althariisa Slimy

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    I kinda agree with you. maplestory has a lot of features and styles, so there is not a meaning on anything we see, making up a inexistent meaning to set up a debate over racial thought, its just fueling a fire, that we should just extinguish instead.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
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