Information Christmas 2020 Balance Changes [Explained]

My weak hands already hurt from using macros, RIP 3x the APM

 

What has MM/paly/sair done to the GMs that they can't freeze mobs at shaolin also

Like really? Mage nerf, not a MM and sair nerf bruh?

 

Go try it.

 

don't forget about the pallys they freeze too pleadingface

 

When we have classes like Paladin and IL Mages being nerfed into irrelevancy, why hasn't NL been nerfed at ALL?

Lets compare NL's to BM, MM & Corsair (the other ranged classes)

Pros:
- Flat 30% bonus avoid with Shifter
- Already has naturally high avoid on top, too
- Has the luxury to AFK more than every other class (even 30k HP Warriors) in bosses
- Doesn't have to sacrifice main gear/stats in an effort to gain Avoidability, in exchange for DPM gains that you'd need to @epm test to see
- Has higher DPM when measured in "real" conditions
- DPM increases are not at ALL based on ANY cooldown skills (Concentrate, Snipe, Corsair Boat)
- Can be used as a Sweeper and/or Meso Up + Haste mule the entire time you leech it up
- Can use Shadow Stars without any DPM decrease (compared to Archers' Soul Arrow)
- Have Alchemist

Compared to Corsair:
- Doesn't have to manage a highly fragile DINGHY when a boss attacks (especially 1/1)
- Much easier time washing, meaning higher HP is easier to get

Compared to BM:
- Doesn't suffer massive DPM hit by constantly being hit & needing to re-spin up Hurricane

Compared to MM:
- Isn't dependant on SI for damage. (People always bring SE so the like-for-like counter argument is void)
- doesn't have to babysit Snipe cooldown for the entire duration of the run

NL's should, in an effort to balance them with other classes, have (at minimum):
- Shifter success % rate nerfed
- some sort of Avoidability formula nerf
- some nerf to their resource/DPM interaction (like how Archers the arrows' bonus Attack when using Soul Arrow)
- further nerfs to Alchemist

Even if all these changes were put in, NL's would still be more viable than Paladins & IL mages.

Keep in mind the only advantage IL had over FP is that they freeze Shaolin mobs. No one does any 2 hit leech with IL since Duku's got nerfed months ago. Windraiders, Wolf Spiders, Ulu 1-3 & Petri Mobs are predominantly 1 shot leech spots.

 

Believe it or not this is actually a buff to MM in Forest of Towers solo grinding because now they can have their bird out whereas previously they wouldn't be able to.

As for 7F the best way to go is stand on a shelf and spam AE anyways. Bird freezing the monks kind of helped not getting knocked off previously but it doesn't make that much of an impact (I actually forgot to recast bird a lot), especially after you get Blind.

 

I can't because I'm using a Mac, I can't use sticky key on jump.

I've done HS, HB, MU, Taunt, and Sweeper back in petris selling 4-way split. That was 3 buff mules, having to party invite and leave on 3 of them. I sold 4-ways 105-120 package (completing in 1.5 days), I've even done it 19 hours straight. If you're asking if I'm up to the challenge, I can certainly say yes. All of my buyers know how sweaty I was (Shivering was even one of my buyers).

I've also done HS, MU, Taunt, and sweeper at 5-6F.

It's not as hard as you think. And no, I did not watch Netflix while I'm selling leech because I tried to maximize the buyer's EPH. Heck, my buyers were getting 60m EPH at 5-6F during Halloween event.

 

LMAO
Go Petri and use MU, sweeper, taunt mule bro

 

Nah I am not trolling, guy. That mesos I made until 120 (bought few leeches) were gone after buying 2 gen20s. Pretty entertaining to hear that bishops have so much power placed into their hands from someone who sells 5-6f leech with AMs and make tons of mesos (which I think is insane in a good way). The only reason why I am not quitting on my bishop and play AM is that I am done selling leech due to my life outside of ML.

So yeah maybe Bishop is more played because it can do something other than just selling leech (Which is true for AMs too), and the price of skill books is higher due to the population. But more power is placed on their hands? Like Huiae said, it's just a personal opinion.

 

Check my latest post, I've done it before for 3+ months.

 

I think its important to realize that you cant have everything in 1 class.
The fact is while you're arguing bishops have it easier to join a boss run while arch mages have only one slot, you're forgetting the element of fun & DPM.

It's not all about return of investment and monetary value.

Play the game and choose the job you have fun with, you can't have everything in 1 job/character.

Like how attacker classes have better value in bossing runs, they lack the ability to level-up and sell leech as fast as mages do. A player who invested in a single attacker class would not be able to sell any leech unless he makes a mage. He'll have to find other sources of money-making which will never be as efficient as selling leech. As a trade-off, that attacker will be able to have more value in bossing runs.

However, it's still a give-and-take between attackers.
NLs have great DPM but they require shit-ton of washing. They are unable to sustain themselves early on at all if they pump 400-INT. You can argue not to pump 400-INT then, that's true but the levelling process and ability to make money from the start will still be more difficult as compared to making a mage. Shads on the other hand require less washing, are well-balanced in cleaving and single-target DPM but they are not the best in either.

Archers have great SE utility that makes them essential in bossing. However low avoidability and no stance means you have to live through the cancer of repositioning and stuns. Similarly, HP wash is cancer in this current meta.

Each warrior has their own pros and cons. DKs are essential in alot of bossing due to HB. However they lack in damage compared to Hero and Paladin counterparts. Heroes deal great DPM but lack of utility makes them less favourable. Paladins have great elemental damage and high single-hit damage cap but lack of cleave is their downside.

Similarly between bishops and mages, mages have the ability to show-off their DPM and consider themselves as attackers while bishops, no doubt are easier to be recruited into boss runs, remain having lower DPM in that sector. Bishops have their advantage of utility but they remain mostly a supporting class. Yes you can angel ray your way out but will you actually deal a 3-4m dpm in PinkBean like an arch mage (which is actually on par to a heavily funded attacker)? No.

BUT ALL OF IT, will require funding if you want to be picked up by a squad or be the best leecher. There is NO easy way out. Even a bishop can be a worthy attacker dishing out heavy DPM (like gia in horntail), but not without heavy funding.

At the end of the day it depends on what your goal is - if you want to pink bean or boss, make a class that is more appreciated in the boss runs. If you want easier meso-making life without an INT-lord, then choose your mage class. But if you think being an attacker means easier option to enter a bossing squad, you are completely wrong. You actually have to heavily fund your attacker in the current meta to be recruited. HP washing is also an almost-mandatory option because if you consider both Horntail and PinkBean, dying is a liability & survivability is an advantage to the squad.

It is impossible to want a meso-making character with high ROI that is easily recruited into an end-game boss run without heavy funding.

 

Then enjoy it. why you're complaining D:

Just to let you know, I trained almost lv.200 AMs * 2 charas when even there was no petri, and multicliented like hell even when ML didn't support multiclienting, using multiple PCs and VMwares. (there is still guide about VMware which i wrote years ago). I think this is enough experience to debate about your topic, pro.

ps. bish needs 1600+ magic to oneshot petri. I hope you try to make that bish and complain about AMs double pot using.

 

I agree with you, but the problem here is that Bishop as of current is considered as the best leeching class if this nerf goes through. I've broken down the returns for every leech location.

All I wanted the balance team to know is either:
1. Make Arch Mage the best leech class (in terms of EPH and mesos gained/hr)
2. Or make Arch Mage more relevant in Boss runs

Like you said it yourself, a class has to have its own identity. Bishop has its identity, which is the vanguard/supporter in boss raids, and they should only be semi-decent at money making through leech. However, the latter will no longer be the case if they nerf 5-6F as that's the only leeching location that provides higher mesos/hr than efficient skeles.

 

but the monks jump now, which means no more safe spot for leechers isn't it

 

There should still be safespots on the map. It's only an annoyance to people training in 7F because there's nowhere safe to put their mules in now.

 

I don't doubt your experience, but bishops do not have skele in the past either. You have to compare apples to apples. Now, you have 3 end-game leeching locations:
1. 5-6
2. Petris
3. Skeles

Out of these 3 locations, skeles generate the most mesos/hr if you are efficient. I'm not trying to say that I can't continue selling 5-6 or Petris, however, I want to make a point where Bishop should not be as good as (if not better than) Arch Mages in mesos making when they have so many utility skills.

 

I don’t get how you can run out of mesos from a cleric you leveled to 120 by buying gen20. 2 copies of gen20 is 40m. Leveling my cleric from 1-120, just by looting all mesos, not buying leech, and doing gachapon, I made 150m. This was with no WS/CS pulls so I could have definitely made even more if I was lucky with gach.

I don’t think the power point is based on opinion. It’s just based on a balance perspective. Bishop get insane party utility in the form of holy symbol, holy shield, and dispel while also being decent leech sellers in their own right. This is what makes them so popular. They are a do it all class.

yeah if your personal preference is only to make mesos then just make the AM but bishop has a lot of power because they can do everything well. The only advantage AM gets is being able to 1 hit ulu2 earlier, but the thing is bishop can sell 2 hit skeles at the same level threshold AM does ulu2 which nets about 70% of the mesos, but EPH of 2 hit skeles > ulu2 so bishop will level faster. The gain is so little; this is the very essence of why bishop is such a popular class. There are not enough trade offs in order to pick AM over bishop. Obviously for a group of players like myself that have no interest in bossing AM > bishop for what you want to do with your mage character, but it would be disingenuous to state that bishops evaluated holistically as a class do not have more power than arch mages.

 

Without Taunt mules, 1h Petri is the better leech spot than 1h skele? No?

 

Yes, but not in terms of mesos making. Petris has a terrible drop table.

 

Just because I/L can't do 5-6f anymore doesnt mean I/L sucks. You do realize that they get to farm at obv4/5 whereas F/P are hard stuck at RoR 4/5.

You do realize that NL's dpm relies on MM/BM's SE, without it, their dpm is trash.
NL's can't farm, the other 3 classes can.
NL's don't need nerfs, Its just better to buff all other classes to be on par power level with NL. There is a reason why many buffs are given to all other classes.