Information Christmas 2020 Balance Changes [Explained]

Somehow missed this over the other replies.
1. The only reason why you're stuck with "I need to sell leech" mentality at early game is already the issue. If you want to gain mesos, you need to mass level your Bishop (same with Arch Mages). Sticking with selling low level leech is due to your own decisions (money comes later). I've never sold any leech until I've hit level 172 (that was when I can start 1h Petris). I've had negative cash flow duo grinding at 5-6 with someone just so that I can reach the level where I can 1h Petris. You should very well get an extremely high EPH duo-ing with an Arch Mage at 1-2 at lower levels.

2. Why do you even choose to go to Ulu 2? I've seen Bishops at Ulu 2, Petris, and Shaolin (solo), when they can easily get higher EPH at skeles. Care to provide your reasons? I am really curious about it.

3. The 30% damage boost is great, however Bishop gets 50% damage boost at skeles. Note that skeles has the best drop table as compared to 5-6F and Petrifighters.

Like someone mentioned, every class should have their own identity. Bishop's identity is supposed to be a support/vanguard/all-around character. Arch Mages are supposed to be the best leech and mesos making class out there, however their "identity" is overshadowed by efficient Bishops selling leech at skeles. Now, tell me how is Bishop considered balanced if they can do better than what Arch Mages are supposed to be the best at?

If you disagree with my statement, please provide data to back your statement. I am willing to pull the data that I've obtained from 5-6F (pre-nerf) and 1h Petris. You can reach out to efficient skele leechers for the skeles data. (NOTE: we're comparing apples to apples. The seller must have MW20, MU, Taunt, and Sweeper)

 

If the problem is the leeching, why not punish the leechers? Why not make leeching EXP slightly worse? Why ruin mages so many times to ruin leeching?
Staff asking for input on Deep Ludi teleporters but not on issues like these is a spit in the face to end game players that make 4th job characters around the meta of the endgame.

 

WOW , nice buff for DKs oh wait excuse me , HB mules, + Def ftw.

 

I don't know why porl is trying to drag NL into this discussion. For the record, NLs aren't born into high DPM; not only do they need SE and have problems with grinding and whatever, they also don't actually outperform other ranged characters without significant amounts of level and equipment. Lower level NLs with midgame equip actually have problem out-DPSing bowmasters of equivalent stats unless high attack potions are involved, never mind Marksmen (who are at their prime at that point) and Corsairs, and even in endgame they need good equip to actually outdamage other ranged classes by a noticable margin. I see no problem with a class that needs significant investment (both in money and time) with a bit higher returns.

There are a number of balance problems both old and new, but NLs and whatever issues you have with them ain't one of them.

 

I also have no idea why is NLs involved here.... we should stick to the point on mages, especially IL.

LOL. Ask for feedback on things that are like kinda cute and gain all the positive feedbacks before smashing the faces of many players.

But yeah. Such changes is the real changes that we should be collecting feedback on, not adding some portal.

 

Can't believe just a single nerf to I/L can make you guys classify the class as "dead". Makes those I/L players back in old school era of 2007~2010 seem godlike for spamming their way to lvl200s at skeles.

 

A summary of the questions regarding the Shaolin and I/L Mage stuff:

• Why do a mega-nerf all at once? Would it not be better to test out removing ult-macros first, then consider the other stuff (jumping mobs + no freezing) if it's still too OP?
• It seems like the reason behind the freeze nerf at Shaolin is so that the mobs wouldn't be barred from jumping, but does this also unintentionally and unfairly nerf Corsairs and MMs at 7F who already have it rough in terms of grinding as ranged classes?
• Would there be any TMA compensation for I/L mages given that F/P mages can 1H every other leech map so much sooner?
  
• Was a leech EXP nerf or mob spawn nerf considered at all?

My own personal questions:

• In terms of class identity, does it make sense for "Ice"/Lightning mages to not be able to freeze with "Blizzard" at the one of the only end-game maps they would multi-hit at?
• Did (or, in the future, would) Staff ask for feedback on map changes like these in the future that affect a large % of players? I don't know much about the Deep Ludi teleport portal stuff but it sounds like according to other players that there was a forum post asking for feedback on that.
• Lastly, has there been any consideration on how busted EXP is via mist training for lower level F/Ps?

Personally, I think a Shaolin EXP nerf in some capacity is fine, and that it's not the end of the world for I/L mages (I only have to gain like 25 levels to be able to 1H at Oblivion 4 kekw), but I think that further transparency/rationale and community consideration would be nice.

Edit: Also...still no Dunas EXP buff even though there was a whole thread with a bunch of people agreeing?

 

Here's my take on the changes, kind of a bummer that Corsairs/Marksmen and Paladin (kinda) became collateral damage.

 

nice !!!

 

Mah man works fast

 

No, no congelaran. duh.

 

Hey I thought that there was a majority vote against having more than 1 teleporter in a given Path of Time map. :O :S

 

Also, i think enrage change its not good enought to make this skill truly useful. we re still having the cd issue. its too long. why not just shorten if it still considered bad?. it still not worth of leveling up.

 

If gear is more expensive it becomes harder to obtain for the average player. It applies to every class of course, but harder to obtain end game gear = not actually that many NLs running around with crazy damage. Popularity and value ain't paying for my gear, sadly.
Nerfing any particular skill is like taxing the poor the same amount as the rich. Not to mention we have one of the worst mobbing skills in the game, and are completely dependent on another class's skill to do good damage.
This recent change to I/Ls ONLY affect those at shaolin and you can already see the huge outrage.


It's just inevitable that NLs get attacked in every balance thread lol.
People see a few strong ones and just want to nerf the whole village or somehow make us take more damage like we all have an 8k range. Nah bro my damage is average if not worse compared to other classes with similar funding, please let me keep my scuffed alchemist.

 

• Yes it does, its an MMO and in every MMO i've played there are mobs that are immune to certain status effects. This does not remove class identity. If every mob was able to be frozen wouldn't it also be fair to make every mob poisonable? Like ob4 and crimson guardians?
• As someone who trained a f/p as their first charachter. A lot of people at the end game do not realise this but mist training is really expensive and requires a partner. You have to tank mobs that are a lot higher level than you while having a lower mp/hp pool while also needing to find a partner. As a regular mage you can go to spots where you rarely get hit if even hit at all. Look at Ghost ship, gallos (never been at cds but heard its good). So their trade offs are that they require more pots and actually need to socialize xd.
• KEKW

 

I also think it's extremely unfair to complain about F/P mage 3rd job, when you can have by far the most broken grinding option for every job and every level which is afk one buttoning at GS2 as I/L (or cleric). In the meantime the poor F/P wizards plink mobs one by one with fire arrow which is only marginally better than magic claw kekw

Whether or not this salvo of nerfs to Shivering's method is warranted, I won't comment (never bought nor sold a single second of leech in my life) but yea there's a reason why I wouldn't recommend beginners go F/P and that's because a new player wouldn't survive the bullshit F/P 2nd job from level 30 to like 60 when death teddies start being viable. And even with death teddies it's still an extremely active, skill-dependent levelling method compared to GS2 stairs.

 

Well, my point of View is kinda like this
1. Take the Uchiha (Sins) out of this discuss - reasonless, you know theyr History.

2. xadra think over FP's second Job. Pizards are a way to play but you have to burn a HUGE amount of Money (for* Pots) to train as close as efficient as I/L or Clerics and also you have absolute ZERO income in that time cause every Meso you get will be need for Pots!
While Clerics and I/L get a bunch of Gacha thought theyr godly Mobbing Skills and kinda train for free compared to the suffer a F/P goes thought. (Stormbreakers > DT's in my oppinion btw.)

2.1 Jumping Mobs in FOT seems to murder already the 3rd Job F/P Godly Leech alternative to WS - and also is kind of Murder enough for F/P's 3rd job. (Not sure if needed)

3. Yeah Archmages are abused as Leechseller - sightly for theyr good Mobbing but in fact,
Bish's are tho and also have HS so an Archmage will need a HS Mule.

4. The fact that u can't anymore "Ultimate" on Macro should be enough in my oppinion.
It is just a awkward Thopic you are trying to fight on. If the issue is Leeching then lower the EXP Gain or smthing.
I made a Archmage NOT to sell Leech at all but more to farm myself Scrolls and stuff i may need early or late.
(Shield M.Atk 60% are kinda the most expensive Scrolls i think? And only Farmable from 1! Mob.. > Should be add to Ellinia Gacha Bonus)

Also i would LOVE to see maps that are to popular for Leechers etc. to have atleast a Minidungeon built in like the ones you have in AntTunnel to farm Alone on a seperate Map. (I mean try to find a free GS2 Map )
Thats just my tiny oppinion (W/O any Char over 100 jet ) ~ there should be other options
Happy Holidays n Happy Mapling if its time

 

Yeah I'm actually in agreement with you my dude, that's what my post says as well although I didn't even mention pots, which is a good point. I/L and cleric literally make upwards of 100 mil throughout their ez 2nd and early 3rd job grinds, so I don't think it's fair that there are complaints in this thread about F/P 3rd job misting speed.

 

It all boils back down to whether allowing multi-clienting was a good move actually.

 

Let's not open another can of worms. We've been there done that