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Pink Bean Tier List

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by akashsky, Jan 22, 2021.

  1. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Shown below are class rankings in terms of how much damage they output at pink bean. This list does not include party utility as a factor (hence even though bishop is F tier you still want them on your run).

    If there is interest, another list can be created that includes party utility.


    Assumptions:
    1) All classes have critical party buffs (i.e. nightlords have SE)
    2) All classes are controlled and positioned well

    Statue Phases:
    upload_2021-1-21_16-12-8.png
    Tier A: DPM 12m +
    Nightlord is by far the best attacker in the statue phase. They have long range so they can attack birds without activating them, high single target DPS, and high avoid + shadow shifter to output their high DPS despite all the stun / knockback spam that happens in statue phase.

    Tier B: DPM 10m+
    Corsair, Bowmaster, and Marksman are similar to nightlords in range. However, the lack of avoidability makes them weak to the knockback / stun spam that happens in the statue phase.

    Tier C: DPM 7m+
    Buccaneer, Shadower, Paladin, Hero, and Dark Knight all fall in C tier due to their average single target ability and low range. The low range means that they have some downtime on the statue phase where they can't attack anything, which brings down their DPM.

    Tier D: DPM 4m+ (*not sure on how archmages perform here)
    Ice Lightning and Fire poison archmages make up tier D because of their low single target DPS. Furthermore, although they have ranged attacks, their range is not long enough to attack the birds without triggering them - hence as far as pink bean is concerned they are effectively "melee" attackers.

    Tier F: DPM 0m+ (*not sure on how bishops perform here)
    Bishops have the lowest single target damage in the game, in addition to having the same issues as ice lightning and fire poison mages.

    Body Phases:
    upload_2021-1-22_9-33-11.png

    Old
    upload_2021-1-21_16-25-49.png

    Tier A: DPM 5m+
    Nightlords are once again at the top for the same reasons - high single target damage and high avoid.

    Tier B: DPM 4m+
    Arch Mages are actually very strong at pink bean because it does not resist magic damage. While every physical attacker is doing half damage, mages can do their full damage. Corsair, Bowmaster, and Marksman are also up in B tier for their high single target DPS - however they will fall short of nightlords.

    Tier C: DPM 3-3.5m+
    Buccaneer, Shadower and Hero make their claim to C tier. They all have stance / avoid / iframes which let them consistently output their reasonable single target dps on the bean. Paladin falls at the lower end of C tier since they are a bit weaker than hero (because paladin is forced to use their "weaker" thunder charge on the bean).

    Tier D: DPM 1.5-2m+
    Dark Knight make up tier D. Dark Knight, although they have reasonable single target damage, is also put in D tier because they usually do not "zerk". If a dark knight zerks 100% then they could probably go up to C tier.

    Tier F: DPM 1m+
    Pink bean resists holy so bishops do half damage with holy attacks. This combined with already doing the lowest single target dps in the game makes them the worst damage dealer in pink bean.
     
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  2. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Usually, tier lists are based off of maximum potential. With that regard, I would probably reclassify Dragon Knights back to C-tier as 'they generally do not zerk' doesn't reflect optimal play. Any S-tier character can play at F-tier level depending on skill level.
     
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  3. Holp
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    Holp Master Chronos Retired Staff

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    I think the only things I question is Shad and MM ranking at body stage.
    With how often PB DRs, I believe Shads start to shine being able to get a full charged Assassinate off. Also with PB's resistances, Shads can get the full potential out of Assassinate since they don't reach cap damage as often. I think this put them near top-tier. The only problem is when you get hit in Dark Sight and pet doesn't heal you, you gotta exit Dark Sight, potentially dropping your damage output. (Although after full charge, the Assassinate spam can range from great to poop because it becomes ping reliant. :cry:)
    Since the assumption is 'All classes are controlled and positioned well', I assume MMs would be positioned so they don't snipe from the left side. :sleep:
     
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  4. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    I think based on your assumptions of everyone having critical skills and buffs, I'd probably say a few classes seem to be mispositioned.

    Marksmen at least B tier, maybe A tier
    Based on the ideal position assumption, MMs should be:
    • At the side they can snipe
    • Have SI
    • Be positioned in a place that requires the least repositioning (hugging wall / corner pin strat)
    Heroes/AMs
    Heros are definitely a tier higher than Paladin and DKs as you mentioned, but I don't think that AMs so significantly out damage Heroes to be put an entire tier above. Hugging wall / corner pin strat leads to less repositioning after knock back, so with better DPM optimization, I think melees aren't as bad as a lot of people point them out to be. AMs also do get a bit of a damage inflation cus of the Beans that appear. Since we're only talking about damage to body, and not utility, factor that out and the two are probably on par with each other.

    Shads
    What HolpHolp said :p

    DKs
    Tier position is probably right, but rather than seeing it as either zerk or no zerk, probably better to see it as what % of time they can zerk. In that case, it's good to refer to the bottom table:

    ClassDmg % Retained @ PB
    Marksman60.84%
    Paladin40.72%
    Dark Knight (50 - 75% zerk up time)37.50 ~ 43.75%
    Other classes***50%
    ***Corsair and Shadowers are exceptions to the other classes, since they're more situational.
     
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  5. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    It's okay to be mean to DKs, it helps contribute to the zerk life when we sustain emotional damage. We already know we're only around for HB and would be a dead class otherwise.

    You're better off focusing on survival than trying to keep a consistent zerk, as snatch or rush will kill you no matter how skilled you are at zerking. So given the poor range of crusher there's always at least half a dozen people able to kill you at any given moment.

    Unless full buffs means 100% smoke uptime DKs should be down a spot everywhere.
     
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  6. Sepio61
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    Sepio61 Chronos

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    Did you give warriors and MM SI when determining this list?
     
  7. Haaaaayyyyy
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    Haaaaayyyyy Red Snail

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    Does physical damage resistance and elemental resistance stack on top of each other for paladins during the body phase?
     
  8. MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    Only change I’d make is moving pally up to hero tier on body because they’re closer to hero than DK. I think there should also be some DPM ranges so people can see why classes are being ranked the way they are. For DK figures I was doing about 1.3m dpm on PB with 0% zerking and about 1.9m dpm was my highest with some zerking (maybe 35%?). Both of those could be higher with SI but not significantly enough to change DK tier.
     
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  9. Vowels
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    Vowels Slimy

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    Let's talk about the inflation. It's fair to have your opinion as an initial thought because archmages do 199,999~ damage on minibeans if they ult.

    Should they ult though? When mini-beans spawn everyone's attacks are so fast that attackers end up doing most of the mini-beans damage. Almost instantly, as soon as they spawn there isn't a lot of HP left on them. You can see in this gif how, contrary to common sense, attackers are actually the ones inflating their dpm with mini beans:

    [​IMG]

    Was that a triple throw killing a mini-bean, I also see brandish and crusher. Meteor -if used- only overkills and is not needed when Bishops can easily wipe the already hurt mini-beans with one or two genesis instead of spaming dispel in the corner.

    Now consider this:
    Paralyze: 720ms
    Meteor Shower: 3060ms

    F/P archmages give up 4.25 casts of paralyze everytime they ult, which significantly hurts their real PB body dpm. For example Oradious was only able to white Serperior when he stopped using meteor in body stage. And if archmage is able to do similar or more damage than BM I highly doubt Heros can do as much, not even close and you would also have to consider brandish inflated cleave on mini-beans dpm.
     
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  10. OP
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    akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Shadower is at the higher end of C tier. It could probably be pushed to the lower end of B tier as well, but currently, I've yet to see a shadower bean dpm of over 4m which is what I consider a B tier class.

    For marksman, if you are sniping from the right side, you have to deal with constantly getting super knock backed >> from pink beans big bang attack which cuts down dpm. Though this may have some merit. Another reason why I have not put marksman in B tier is I have not seen a 4m+ dpm from one.

    I disagree with shads and I think they are in the right place, but again if someone can do over 4m dpm with a shad then I think its fair to move it up to b tier. Same for marksman (though I think you both are probably right on this one).

    Archmage is certainly better than hero. Ora doesn't have perfect gear and has done over 4m DPM without using meteor once in his dpm tests. Archmages can attack from the left side as well to avoid dealing with repositioning.

    Yes, this makes paladin have to use thunder charge. If they could use holy charge, paladin would probably be high C tier.

    Yes

    Added some DPM Figures. Also with these numbers in mind, I think paladin might need to be changed to the lower end of C tier and leave dark in D tier. Or Perhaps I should just leave it the same, since with a higher zerk % dark could probably stay in D tier, or be in C
     
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  11. Toon
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    well my highest dpm is 3.5m as a marsman but i don’t have perfect gears and i’m 187. 7.2K range clean. I dont know how much it would scale with a better range.
     
  12. OP
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    akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Can you provide a list of your attack gears? If you can do 3.5 at 187, 4m at lv 200 sounds reasonable. I think I should move MM to B tier.
     
  13. Toon
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    Toon Capt. Latanica

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    sure
    38 dex 15 str hat
    35 dex 5 str overall
    23 avoid shoes
    16 att gloves
    14 att cape
    135 xbow
    5 dex 1 str eye
    8 dex face
    23 dex 23 str htp
    tier 10 ring
    event rings
     
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  14. OP
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    akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Also how long was your DPM test?
     
  15. Toon
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    Toon Capt. Latanica

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    epm 5. after the first reflect. but i got it more than once. don’t think it’s inflated from long dr CD’s. Usually epm 5 goes from 3.2-3.5. For sure i have to test epm 20 still.
    And btw statues dpm is much worse now and MM has much lower DPM on statues than BM as we have to stay with cleave instead of hitting right bird.
     
  16. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    But that's why you do the hug the wall/corner pin strat where you position PB far closer to the wall. That way you never have to reposition. The only down time is when you have the lingering effects of super knockback. But for not having to move anywhere and just afk hold down the button. It should still be pretty comparable to being on the left, but having to reposition due to the 1/1 knocking you right, and reposition due to PB being KBed towards you.
     
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  17. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    A true leecher
     
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  18. OP
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    akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    I think that statue dpm would be similar to corsair / bowmaster if you go with the range, so I will leave it as such.


    This works out in theory, but has some issues in practice.

    1) Pink bean moves throughout the run, meaning that you can't maintain that positioning 100% of the time.
    2) Buccaneers using barrage knocks the bean away <<, and snatch isn't always 100% responsive.

    Anyways assuming that you maintain that position for the majority of the fight I agree that MM should probably be able to get 4m+ dpm, hence they have been moved to B tier on the bean.
     
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  19. Toon
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    Lololol i can only think of epm. my bad
     
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  20. jefa
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    jefa Slime

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    I have question about hero and pally.

    At ML library,

    Pb strong against Holy, fire, ice and neutral element.
    So lightning is nomal against pb.


    How this lightning blast is weaker than be halved brandish??
     

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