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Increase the level of Shaolin mobs

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by RegalStar, Feb 12, 2021.

  1. RegalStar
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    RegalStar Nightshadow

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    Sep 23, 2019
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    8:59 PM
    DMsRebirth
    I posted about this in semi-jest on a couple of other topics, but after thinking about it a little I decided to actually make a more serious thread about this.

    If the staff ever decides to nerf Shaolin Temple in some way, I think the best way to do so is to increase the monster level of all the mobs within, to something along the line of 120 for wooden fish, 130 for bronze monks, 140 for silver monks and 150 for gold monks.

    The fact that Shaolin is the best training place in the endgame, in my opinion, is not a problem - after all, some area has to be the best training place in the endgame, and the idea to nuke the best spot to bring some kind of balance makes no sense - what happens to the second best spots afterwards, then? And what would happen to the third best spot if the second best spot is also nuked somehow? The main problem with Shaolin is that it comes "too early" in the grand scheme of things, due to the overly low monster levels. And I'm not just talking about how it affects leeching, either.

    In order for what I want to say to make sense, I'm going to cover some of MapleStory's mechanics first. While for the first 75 levels or so, monsters' HP/exp ratio would steadily go up, after about level 78 most of the monsters would generally be stuck at an HP/exp ratio of about 20-25. This number alone would mean that training on lower level monster is pointless as you'll always want to go after the toughest monsters, whose higher HP means that you waste less time moving around hitting new mobs, and waste less damage to overkill, but there is one last balancing mechanic preventing this from happening - if the character's level is lower than the monster's, for every level there is a penalty to both damage and accuracy. Essentially this means short of defense ignoring attacks like poison and meso explosion, characters can't really kill monsters that are too higher leveled than them, which creates a progression on what monsters they can kill based on their levels.

    However, Shaolin mobs break this progression. The two kind of bronze monks have similar amounts of HP as Chief Oblivion Guardians, but their levels are 10 lower. The gold monks in 5-6F and 7F also have a level that's 1 lower than Chief Oblivion Guardians, but they give more than twice as much as exp, and even though their HP is also around twice as much, it essentially means that when looking at their HP/exp in a vacuum, there would be no reason to go after Chief Oblivion Guardians when Gold Monks give a similar amount of exp per damage taken, but Gold Monks are much better at absorbing damage than Chief Oblivion Guardians. Obviously, this has an effect on leeching as well. There's no point in leeching on Chief Oblivion Guardians, when Gold Monks can be leeched on roughly same level but give back much more exp based on factors above.

    This is the big reason why I think that adjusting Shaolin mob levels is the best way to go to balance this area. By increasing their levels to something more appropriate for their HP, they essentially become a higher step of the grinding ladder, rather than a step that competes and completely overtakes lower steps that they really shouldn't be competing with in the first place. It would give ToT a time frame of relevance - not all the way to endgame, but a time frame nonetheless. It might also solve the overcrowding issue at 5-6 right now by dispersing leechers across the two other maps, though I'm honestly not sure if this will do much - Shivering will probably quickly figure out a new way to leech any level buyers at 5-6 using Poison Mist or something. Most importantly, this should be an extremely easy change to make technically, as it should just involve overwriting some numbers.

    The 120 for wooden fish and 130 for bronze monks I gave are based on the level of ToT mobs with similar HP. The 140 for silver monks and 150 for gold monks are much more arbitrary since there exists no non-regional monsters that give similar amount of HP - Neo Tokyo mobs also have level and HP that are all over the place, so I just kind of went with an arithmetic progression. Honestly I think when considering the gap of HP between bronze and silver, and gap between silver and gold, giving 145 to the silver monks probably also makes sense.
     
    • Agree x 17
    • Like x 3
    • Great Work x 2
    • Disagree x 1
    • Creative x 1
  2. ShadowRealm
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    ShadowRealm Chronos

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    Jun 18, 2018
    5:59 PM
    Shadower
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    The reason Shaolin is a end-game training spot is mainly because of the small map size. A sutra depository map is like 1/3 of ToT map and 1/2 of a skele/petri map. Because of this, players don't really have to move around to kill mobs because by the time many mobs are killed, they will just respawn on the same platform because of how simple the map is.

    With 2 people in a shaolin map, almost the entire map is covered. The mobs are pretty much given to you spoonfed all you do is just... kill them.

    You can half the hp/exp but it still be superior to the former two og grinding maps because the fact is that map is very clustered in which majority of the mobs will just spawn at the same spot where they just killed.

    Take a look at kid mannequins back in the glory days, its very good exp and meso because the fact it has a pseudo global mob vac which ALL mobs chase the player basically the player doesn't even need to move left and right but the player just use the escalator and kill the already clustered mannequins.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Shivering
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    Shivering Wolfspider

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    Mar 9, 2018
    5:59 PM
    Shivering
    I/L Arch Mage
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    The only issue with this suggestion is it would have a residual effect on 3rd job F/P mages since they would have a very hard time finding last hitters at FoT with gold monks being 150, but it's a small price to pay for what needs to be done imo.

    This suggestion would also be an indirect buff to skeles and petris as it would expand the level ranges for which the leech is viable and would also add some relevance to both 1-2F and 3-4F maybe, although I'm not sure about that as it might just be more convenient to go with skeles/petris.

    I think overall though this level idea has been mentioned multiple times now and it's a solid way to balance shaolin as it brings back natural leveling progression. I've been a big fan of the idea since I first saw it and would really like to see this implemented.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  4. whatdatoast
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    whatdatoast Windraider

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    Apr 9, 2020
    5:59 PM
    whatdatoast
    Bowman
    Here's some numbers on what the suggested levels would do to the required accuracy for 7F (just playing around on https://www.drauds.com/accuracy-calculator).

    Golds (75 avoid, lvl 130):
    Current
    Player level 130: 276 accuracy needed to 100% hit

    Suggested (lvl 150):
    Player level 130: 486 accuracy needed to 100% hit, with 276 accuracy you would hit 13.56% of the time.
    Player level 140: 381 accuracy needed to 100% hit, with 276 accuracy you would hit 44.88% of the time.
    Player level 145: 329 accuracy needed to 100% hit, with 276 accuracy you would hit 68.04% of the time.

    Silvers (45 avoid, lvl 125):
    Current
    Player level 125: 166 accuracy needed to 100% hit

    Suggested (lvl 140):
    Player level 125: 260 accuracy needed to 100% hit, with 166 accuracy you would hit 27.64% of the time.
    Player level 135: 197 accuracy needed to 100% hit, with 166 accuracy you would hit 68.64% of the time.

    The mob avoid is what determines the accuracy. As long as you are the same level as the mob, the accuracy needed doesn't change (i.e 276 accuracy for lvl X player if mob is lvl X). My understanding is that warriors often train at 7F when they can 100% silvers, and the misses on gold doesn't impact eph that much (especially when the gold spawn rate is low).

    So for non-mage classes, it seems the change would probably only make 7F viable when you're lvl 140+ (but I think that's true already anyways?). So most classes would be forced to train at ToT from 120-140 probably?

    I don't know how mage accuracy works, so maybe someone can help me fill that in. I think the progression for mages in shaolin is to 1-2F until you max ult / mw10. The breakeven point between 3-4F and 5-6F is really soon after (like lvl 135-140). So increasing the levels might not affect mage's ability to hit them, but the damage penalty would be enough to make 3-4F viable until 150? Perhaps even increasing the mini's avoid (not the giants) would help too.
     

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