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Make Horntail 1 Run per Day

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by yogurtseller, Feb 18, 2021.

  1. Selquin
    Offline

    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    May 28, 2018
    12:53 AM
    Serperior
    Bowmaster, Night Lord, Buccaneer
    200
    Pasta
    Maybe I need to change the slogan. Every time someone always tries to counter with "1hour PB timer lul" as if myself and my fellow elitists wouldn't support that wholeheartedly as well.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. JDPJHC
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    JDPJHC Mixed Golem

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    Aug 6, 2017
    2:53 AM
    JDPJHC
    Hero
    200
    Summer
    1hr PB timer and 1hr HT timer. It is what the people want.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Oradious
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    Oradious Mr. Anchor

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    Aug 28, 2018
    Male
    2:53 PM
    Oradious
    F/P Arch Mage, Gunslinger, Buccaneer
    200
    Pasta
    Bold of you armchair experts who have never done HT and/or PB before to assume we don't support 1 hour PB timer as well
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. s0mething
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    s0mething Capt. Latanica

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    May 4, 2019
    11:53 PM
    12 hour HT timer and 1 hour PB timer.

    And excuse me, I play with a foldable chair.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

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    Female
    Seoul, Korea
    3:53 PM
    Verdict
    Bishop
    WeenieHutJrs
    Amused to see pros ask 1 run per day with buffed exp/droprate, and, 1hr ht timer, for their time-efficiency and market profit because they can do, and ask others to do 3 pty+ run or just give it up, which harms others profit.

    Don't say 'why so serious it's a fun slogan lul'. I admit I'm stubborn on stuffs like this, and think such so-called 'sensitive joke' shouldn't be allowed in general. It's not joke anymore if listeners don't agree on, and I'm clearly one of them.

    Disappointing.
    Disgusting.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Vowels
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    Vowels Slimy

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    Jan 23, 2019
    3:53 AM
    untrue
    Bishop
    200
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    It's just that there's something fundamentally wrong with this game boss & reward design:
    Players spend A LOT of time voting and HP washing and they also spend A LOT of time making mesos to get better/perfect gear, this is done in order to boss. But then you boss and you find out that it's not rewarding at all, that your splits are pennies, that if you want to have some progress with your character you are better farming mesos at ULU2 with your mage rather than actually bossing with the character you have invested so much into.

    so the cycle is kinda like this:

    Sell leech/farm while leeching attacker-> get really good mesos and exp -> fund attacker -> boss with attacker -> see reward -> wow bossing is trash -> sell leech/farm...

    If you stop to think about those that only rely on bossing to profit is even worse, so the question is why it is bad? It wasn't like that before but the aging and population increase of the server have made the supply of bossing drops way too big and therefore the prices way too low, so one way to adress the problem and make bossing actually rewarding is by making the boss more challenging. I beleive one hour HT timer unironically solves the problem and at the same time shifts the meta and makes the game more entertaining.
     
    • Agree x 4
    • Like x 1
    • Disagree x 1
    • Great Work x 1
    • Informative x 1
    • Useful x 1
  7. Chrisss
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    Chrisss Horny Mushroom

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    Oct 21, 2020
    Male
    2102 Top Floor of Roppongi Mall
    2:53 PM
    ChrisBS
    Bishop
    200
    Rogue
    yes.
     
  8. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

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    Aug 1, 2015
    Female
    Seoul, Korea
    3:53 PM
    Verdict
    Bishop
    WeenieHutJrs
    Thanks for brilliant insight about end-game. Of course I agree on most of what you said. but reason why i'm so against about 1hr HT timer is, not because your logic has some error, but it only applies on 'few groups' while gets applied as tragedy for 'the others'.

    It is inevitable for contents become outdated and getting lowered as server gets developed. In ML history, when only 2~3 groups were able to kill HT and price of Gen30 and MW20 was 'NOT for sale outside', just like current MW30 in PB squad, my squad sold blizz30 and meteor30 like 50m/ea price, thinking 'we can charge 500m+ since we're kinda only provider of that book but it's bad idea for long-term life of server, will decrease players and let us alone, what's the point of playing ML if that happens. (I still miss you Sam_VoshSam_Vosh '. few months later, most of former HT groups were vanished and other 3~4 groups dominated HT, and they raised blizz/meteor30 books price as 300m. Because I was quitting at that point I didn't saw it actually but my many friends who started at that point felt heavy salt on it and told about it me, and i was like "WTF happened while I was quitting? Don't say a lie. I can't imagine".

    Yes. I should confess that I'm traumalized for that phenomena - boss drops being dominated by few groups. You told me It's terrible that you guys tried hard to do boss and reward is shit, you need more sweet result than endless boring ulu2 farming, or leech selling. that's the hell which 1h HT timer guys are pusing others into. It's nonsense that they climbed ladder with much easier HT (12hr~2hr), and kicking down others when they climbed up enough. I read that simple '1h HT timer' joke like that. 'gtfo you fellowe to boring endless farming/leech selling which we don't want to. We're only deserved group for sweet yummy boss reward.'

    Again, your logic is all correct. Reason why I'm so against is, it's correct for just 'only for few groups', and I already saw what happens if this happened. For 2k21 ML, that 'sweaty players reward' is role of PB (and NT part 2 if happens), not HT anymore imo. We've seen how sweaty players react so sensitive for recent nerfs like shaolin, some change of skill % numbers, and so on, because it takes over which they already had. very same logic. that '1h HT timer' suggestion just takes over chance to do HT from who can't do easy 1h HT run for few groups greed. That's why I used such strong term, 'disgusting'.

    Let HT retire in peace.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    In the current state of the server, it is not possible to have endgame bosses be both inclusive and rewarding. There was a time pre-2018 and in the early stages of 2020 where HT was a fantastic method of making money, comparable to some of the sweatiest leeching methods. The influx of new runners caused the price of HT books to drop drastically to the point where its a hilariously bad method of making meso (even if you do the sweatiest 4man runs).
    In my view it is not healthy to have an endgame boss be so unworthwhile for endgame players. HT should be a more challenging and more rewarding activity, it should be something that the new players look forward to working towards minimum wage job that is both trivial and unrewarding.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Althariisa
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    Althariisa Slimy

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    Jul 17, 2018
    Female
    3:53 AM
    Tauriel
    Dark Knight
    200
    Honor
    The real challenge its not running godmode.
     
  11. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

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    3:53 PM
    Verdict
    Bishop
    WeenieHutJrs
    Yes, I noticed we're drawing parallel lines for 'HT should be treated as end-game boss in 5yr+ server?' and we spreaded each ours logic.

    Let others think about this also. again, thanks for insight. not sarcasm. was good chance to see that question on different viewsight and I really appreciate it.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  12. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    2:53 AM
    iPippy
    A critical piece that is being forgotten here is the overall power level of the server being higher. Partly due to fight optimization, partly due to significantly better gear/class balance options. It does not take nearly as much to make a 6 man successful, and we paid the price for that with the influx of runners during the overdrive event. I think it's too late to save ht meso viability even with a more stringent timer due to the nature of the drops, but a 6 man run today is nothing like a 6 man run last year. A timer keeps the 10 man squads from forming 2 6 mans (and using 2 channels) a few levels longer.
     
  13. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    6man runs have certainly power creeped over the last year or so, but 95% of them would still be unable to clear in under an hour, at least not with 20+ apples used. In the age of prime HH mules, full endgame 6man teams with 2 HH mules could barely clear in 1 hour without apples, so I imagine it would still be pretty difficult today.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Blu301
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    Blu301 Pac Pinky

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    2:53 AM
    Blu301
    Shadower
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    Summer
    Let me preface this by saying I hate that HT is so damn long. I always say I wish people were down to just run 1 HT per night. So to me, a 1 hour timer would be an incredibly appealing move.

    That being said, 1 hour HT timer objectively isn't right. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a beneficial move for other reasons, but considering the state of endgame here I don't think it's fair to the early-middle 4th job bossers. With Pink Bean out there's now new endgame content available. And Neo Tokyo is, well, there. I've also seen talk about LHC (idk if liny's video was a total meme or not) and Neo Tokyo part 2 as well, so it's clear more will come someday.

    I think HT should remain viable for the near minimum level 2-party teams (like 155-165ish) to clear without having to use apples. 2 hours is the best number for that. What is the alternative for people in this 155-175 ish level range if they're gated from running HT? Do yall just expect people to zakum-krexel-cwk all the way to good lawdy 175+ until they're reasonable attackers for 1 hour teams? Frankly even with an above-average 2-party team of all 175+, a 1 hour timer is not easy money at all without many apples. This would turn the vast majority of Horntail runs into apple runs, and I think way too many people run Horntail on a daily basis for that to be a good look.
     
    • Agree Agree x 15
  15. -ovv
    Online

    -ovv Horntail

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    Feb 23, 2020
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    11:53 PM
    -ovv
    Beginner
    200
    Honor
    If the problem is that there are too many successful HT runs in any given day, then it makes sense to look for ways to reduce the number of successes. At this stage of the server, I think we've grown too accustomed to successful HT runs as the norm, and it's expected to always have safe and easy runs because optimal bossing strategies are widely known and are pretty much set in stone.

    IMO random sed assignment is one way of augmenting risks in smaller comps while rewarding larger comps with a larger safety net. It's too easy to completely ignore a core bossing mechanic with mules like dexbuccs or sedowers, so balancing around that could be something to think about.
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
  16. Shivering
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    Shivering Wolfspider

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    Mar 9, 2018
    11:53 PM
    Shivering
    I/L Arch Mage
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    Randomize mass sed/dispel from start to finish on run. The entire game is RNG; why not introduce it to your HT run as well?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Jaewonnie
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    Jaewonnie Capt. Latanica

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    Apr 21, 2020
    Crimsonwood Mountain: Cavern of Pain
    2:53 AM
    PAWGChamp
    Buccaneer
    Just replace sed with random dc
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  18. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Mar 9, 2017
    11:53 PM
    Dostoevsky
    Dark Knight
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    Spirit
    Make a HORNTAIL DUNGEON with ONE HOUR TIMER that you can run ONCE PER DAY with RANDOM SEDUCE and DAMAGE REFLECT and make it drop CHAOS SCROLLS and WHITE SCROLLS and GACHAPON and NX

    If these demands aren't met I'll settle for the return of Ducky Pup
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  19. ShadowRealm
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    ShadowRealm Chronos

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    Jun 18, 2018
    11:53 PM
    Shadower
    275
    They should release chaos horntail so that top players can battle which is a much harder version and the payoff to make billions of splits with drops with chaos htp and more.
    Don't forget 1 hour timer and 1 attempt per day for chaos ht because maplelegends is meant to be a challenging server.
     
  20. Bfitchef
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    Bfitchef Mushmom

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    Jun 5, 2018
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    2:53 AM
    CreatureNL
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    1-hr HT would empty up a lot of time and channels.
     

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