1. Hello!

    First of all, welcome to MapleLegends! You are currently viewing the forums as a guest, so you can only view the first post of every topic. We highly recommend registering so you can be part of our community.

    By registering to our forums you can introduce yourself and make your first friends, talk in the shoutbox, contribute, and much more!

    This process only takes a few minutes and you can always decide to lurk even after!

    - MapleLegends Administration-
  2. Experiencing disconnecting after inserting your login info? Make sure you are on the latest MapleLegends version. The current latest version is found by clicking here.
    Dismiss Notice

Hp Wash

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by flow, Feb 21, 2021.

hp wash is the best mechanic ever

  1. no

  2. never

  3. wtf

  4. probably not

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. flow
    Offline

    flow Slimy

    245
    102
    256
    Jan 18, 2021
    Male
    Brazil
    4:13 PM
    Lisnar, HolyFlow, Theorist
    Buccaneer
    166
    Funk
    This feature is going to be removed from the game?


    upload_2021-2-21_20-6-27.png
    Please, remove this from gtop100, maplelegends is the hardest server i ever seen to hp wash.

    After reading posts on forum i saw so many features who can remove this mechanic without hurting who did this before.
    • Boss drop mp bonus card
    • Rework magical/physical defense formulas
    • Increase of base hp of all classes (please)
    • Diary HP quest
    • STR/DEX/LUK gives extra mp too (wtf)
    • Every monster/boss card you take you got a little bit of HP, bosses worthing more than mobs, and snails card worthing like nothing.
    • Buy hp card from nx shop for like 8k nx, giving like 20 hp.
    • Getting extra HP when join a party with warriors (that's my favorite haha)

    Legends have by far the best development team of maplestory privates server, why we are dodging this problem?
    People play maple now for nostalgia, just to play his oldschool character, creating one assassin, a hunter, etc.

    But when he discover about hp wash, all the nostalgia go out, everyone told him to re-do, create a mage... I know, you don't need hp wash if you're casual, but this
    discourages people to continue leveling, one day his characters cant go bossing with everyone...

    I know, hp wash is a oldschool mechanic, but it's by fair one of the most toxic things i'ver seen on MMO's.

    Let peoples start adventures, choose their job, play, progress, until horntail with friends, please :(

    btw, sorry for the bad english, not my main language!​
     
    • Funny x 6
    • Like x 1
    • Agree x 1
    • Disagree x 1
    • Informative x 1
  2. Jaewonnie
    Offline

    Jaewonnie Capt. Latanica

    353
    158
    278
    Apr 21, 2020
    Crimsonwood Mountain: Cavern of Pain
    3:13 PM
    PAWGChamp
    Buccaneer
    Unfortunately this is the part of nostalgia most ppl have not experienced because they never leveled their old characters to above 3rd job. Mobs being able to 1/2 shot ranged characters existed in official servers and even worse back then you'd have to buy NX to wash or get to an impractically high level to have enough HP.

    Another point, HP washing is too entrenched into the server that taking it out completely will prolly crash the economy. All washers use int equips. Heavy washers rely on leech. Remove washing and the value of int crashes, less ppl will buy leech which means less mesos will be printed (except 5-6).

    I do agree tho that washing is a stupid bug that shouldn't exist. I think the biggest issue is balance. Ranged characters are supposed to be high dmg-low hp chars but washing allows (albeit with a lot of time) 30k hp glass canons. It should be capped to 18k hp for ranged and 30k hp for melee or something like that in a balance point of view (rip DKs)
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Motto
    Offline

    Motto Skelegon

    1,068
    1,139
    428
    Jun 30, 2018
    Male
    Mars
    8:13 PM
    PogShad Motto
    Islander
    201
    [​IMG]
    Here we go with the new weekly HP washing bashing forum thread.

    The problem has been addressed multiple times by inserting features such as mob card ring, HP scrolls, capes with HP and so on.

    Kimmy herself said that for 2021 onwards the goal is to find more gear to insert, that is reasonable, into the market.
    (not a random equipment, most likely linked to quest lines / bosses / other)

    You can play the game without washing, especially for Horntail.
    Here you said :
    Still you haven't read the most important forum thread of them all :
    https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/26370

    You can play 99% of the game without even washing, just by grabbing HP gear and such.
    Plus no one generally does HT at LVL 155 because your DPH will be garbage, maybe look at HT as a 17x+ when you can actually do dmg.

    Zak is a no-brainer lvl 14x+ boss without washing.

    Bullshit toxic players that need to shut the f*ck up, its not required, its just min/maxers that like playing the game in the most sweaty way possible, either doing everything at the maximum efficiency or saying the game is shit.

    Now that I've replied to your post, lets start with questioning.

    1. What class are you interested in playing? (Easy mode Mage, Normal mode Warrior/Ranged, Hard mode Pirate?)

    2. What are you game goals? (FM Hoeing, Bossing, Social, ???)

    3. How sure are you to get to LVL 17x+? (Grinding daily for months, without leeching)
     
    • Agree x 5
    • Friendly x 4
    • Like x 3
    • Disagree x 1
    • Great Work x 1
  4. Eldric
    Offline

    Eldric Slime

    24
    9
    30
    Mar 2, 2019
    Male
    3:13 AM
    Eldric
    Bishop
    145
    Can we create a bot to replicate your answer to every hp wash complaining thread automatically?
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 4
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Creative Creative x 1
  5. Voxtagrams
    Offline

    Voxtagrams Headless Horseman

    885
    381
    376
    Jun 13, 2020
    12:13 PM
    Well, you'll have to put in account that MapleLegends wants to change their Washing mechanics so that its suited for both new and older players and Kimmy really wants to have MapleLegends be unique and not have a cookie cutter washing method to other pServers.. where doing Zakum gives some hp along with Horntail with turning in badges (Which the bosses only dropped Badges that you would trade in for a random reward, and yes that included Zhelm and HTP/Egg, which in turn wouldn't have that person get what they want visually (seeing the drops drop from the boss like it is here) it just has no nostalgia that way..)

    Being unique to not be a cookie cutter washing mechanic towards other pServers would attract some people for true nostalgia purposes.

    It may be brutal but it generally is what it is at the moment.. For me I didn't really mind washing and buying leech because in the long run I was also helping someone while getting help myself.

    I do hope that you'll still enjoy playing when this is or isn't changed.

    Hope you the best.


    Edit: I forgot to mention your English is fine ^_^
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. jesscapades
    Offline

    jesscapades Pac Pinky

    176
    72
    196
    Jun 24, 2019
    Female
    3:13 PM
    jesscapades
    Shadower
    182
    Homies
    please make the poll unbiased
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Motto
    Offline

    Motto Skelegon

    1,068
    1,139
    428
    Jun 30, 2018
    Male
    Mars
    8:13 PM
    PogShad Motto
    Islander
    201
    I can just basically scour all hp wash complain thread and post it lmao.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Kyshies
    Online

    Kyshies Slimy

    234
    177
    235
    Mar 13, 2020
    8:13 PM
    Elliy
    F/P Arch Mage
    Destroy 'em with facts and logic!
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. Ainz
    Offline

    Ainz Zakum

    1,669
    1,081
    490
    May 2, 2015
    Male
    Netherlands
    8:13 PM
    So many I keep forgetting
    0
    Biased polls OnionPissed
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 2
  10. Lazy Kanna
    Offline

    Lazy Kanna Red Snail

    6
    2
    11
    Feb 21, 2021
    Male
    3:13 PM
    I'm not sure if it's been said before, but HP washing also generates vote traffic, which as much as that sucks is needed to promote the server and have it thrive. In that sense HP washing a necessary evil, which is mitigated somewhat by the addition of equipment and other features unique to MapleLegends. I'd also love to see it gone or at least the requirement reduced a bit more but there are potential consequences related to the health of the server, such as status on gtop, as well as the economy that must be considered.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  11. OP
    OP
    flow
    Offline

    flow Slimy

    245
    102
    256
    Jan 18, 2021
    Male
    Brazil
    4:13 PM
    Lisnar, HolyFlow, Theorist
    Buccaneer
    166
    Funk
    haha okay, sorry
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. OP
    OP
    flow
    Offline

    flow Slimy

    245
    102
    256
    Jan 18, 2021
    Male
    Brazil
    4:13 PM
    Lisnar, HolyFlow, Theorist
    Buccaneer
    166
    Funk
    ye, i'll still playing legends, i love this server, ty for the answer
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
  13. Motto
    Offline

    Motto Skelegon

    1,068
    1,139
    428
    Jun 30, 2018
    Male
    Mars
    8:13 PM
    PogShad Motto
    Islander
    201
    To be fair, Kimmy has tested two weeks ago (?) before the event, NX card drops. It was interesting to see the NX dropping and generating a good 1k ~ 1.5k daily from card farming... I wasnt even sweaty min/maxing in specific maps with high density.

    If I were playing in high density maps I would have likely gotten around 2.5k ~ 4k daily, depending on RNG.

    Now, at the moment voting is needed to get high # ranking to get more people playing.
    I'm sure that, in the future, this wouldn't be that important as nowadays we're playing at an average of 1500 ~ 2000 players, that on its own might produce enough networking influx of new players

    The generic :
    I wanted to play nostalgia MS, searches and finds ML... starts playing and then "Man I'd love inviting other friends to play it"
    Proceeds to invite 2~3 friends to play together, that is already 'kinda' (?) happening, I see many KPQs / LPQs of friends playing together [​IMG]
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. Lazy Kanna
    Offline

    Lazy Kanna Red Snail

    6
    2
    11
    Feb 21, 2021
    Male
    3:13 PM
    I got a nice boost of NX myself just getting from 30-35 after I 'graduated' from KPQ. This doesn't put in nearly the same kind of dent in NX usage as other matters, such as AP resets buyable with meso, bossing giving HP rewards, simply boosting the base HP of each class, whatever. It's great to hear you're bringing in friends to play. I was recommended to this server myself by a guildmate in Reboot (even if he doesn't want to come back and play with me lol) and I agree word of mouth is a powerful tool. However promotion is still important since it's an additional way to get new players without much effort from Staff, as voting is driven by the players themselves. When I search "old school Maplestory private server" on Google, Gtop is the first thing to appear, with a handful of servers, including Legends a bit further down.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  15. Chrisss
    Offline

    Chrisss Horny Mushroom

    48
    6
    56
    Oct 21, 2020
    Male
    2102 Top Floor of Roppongi Mall
    3:13 AM
    ChrisBS
    Bishop
    200
    Rogue
    I fascinate your creative ideas to help make the server better and I honestly believe you enjoy the game as you said it yourself. However when I look at these "features" that you've mentioned, perhaps a couple or a few of your ideas may benefit with some "tweaks". Don't get me wrong though, I'm not going to disagree with everything you have here, but I'm also not going to agree with you either.

    The thing is, we all play MapleLegends for the nostalgic Pre-Bigbang content that we miss and with that being said, the Staff of course has brought that back for us to remember the old days. HP washing may be liked for some people but it's not something everyone will agree.

    The list of suggestions you've provided are basically asking the Staff members to rework the whole server. Not to offend anyone, but this is kind of like the Egyptians building the Pyramid of Giza and because "someone" doesn't like how it looks, they were asked if they could rebuild it again to that "someone's" expectations.

    My point being there are pros and cons in every server and regardless of how some of us may disagree with how the server operates, it is pretty much up to the staff to decide whether or not they want to listen to us and help make the server better or worse.

    I hope you understand what I'm trying to say because I'm not here to agree/disagree with you. I'm here just to tell you how it is. :D
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Motto
    Offline

    Motto Skelegon

    1,068
    1,139
    428
    Jun 30, 2018
    Male
    Mars
    8:13 PM
    PogShad Motto
    Islander
    201
    I will now blast this thread, once again with my wall of text copy-pasta from another thread post I made.
    Hoping that one day people will stop doing HP washing threads to insult the "optional" without giving solutions.

    There are only 2 major fixes to HP Washing :

    1. Buff W.Def and M.Def Formulas
    As it stands right now, surely as per vanilla MS, we are using this formula to calculate Min/Max W.Def and M.Def from attacks (found on ayumilove) :

    Weapon Defense
    MAX damage = (MAX before defense) * (1 - 0.01*D) - WDEF*.5
    MIN damage = (MIN before defense) * (1 - 0.01*D) - WDEF*.6
    where D is (monster level - player level) if (monster level) > (player level), and 0 otherwise.

    Magic Defense
    MAX damage = (MAX before defense) - MDEF*.5 * (1 + 0.01*D)
    MIN damage = (MIN before defense) - MDEF*.6 * (1 + 0.01*D)

    What you can see, being the problem is that the boost gained on W.Def and M.Def is legitimately low


    The major buff / fix we can do on this schema is to introduce either a constant buff (simple?)
    Moving the MAX = 0.5 and MIN 0.6 to something like
    MAX = 0.9 and MIN 1.1

    Or by introducing a logarithmic increase where we could be looking at something like
    MAX = DEF * 0.5
    into
    MAX = DEF * 0.5 * log(DEF)

    What would this mean, you might ask?
    You see, linearly increasing DEF would stagnate the DMG_Reduction you get, so for this case, as you can see in the graph
    (Red line is standard, as used in MS / ML, Blue line is the linear increase I first proposed and Green line is the logarithmic increase)
    [​IMG]

    Imagine this scenario of you fighting a boss (lets only discuss MAX dmg)
    He does 5k DMG
    You have 270 WDef
    You're above his LVL (so no dmg increase from lower LVL)
    Standard MAX DMG = (5000) - 270 * .5 = 4865 DMG
    Linear MAX DMG = (5000) - 270 * .9 = 4757 DMG
    Logarithmic MAX DMG = (5000) - 270 * .5 * log(270) = 4671 DMG​
    Of course, with logarithmic increase the def you accumulate will change a lot over time

    Example with 350Wdef
    Standard MAX DMG = (5000) - 350 * .5 = 4825 DMG (-40)
    Linear MAX DMG = (5000) - 350 * .9 = 4685 DMG (-72)
    Logarithmic MAX DMG = (5000) - 350 * .5 * log(270) = 4574 DMG (-97)​
    Q.E.D.

    A buff to the formulas would increase the likelyhood of people grabbing better end-game gear (for example Reverse/Timeless maybe?) to reduce DMG taken from bossing.
    Would introduce a new meso sink for getting equips with higher W.Def / M.Def.
    The improvement to the W.Def and M.Def would be fairly "easier" given its about changing formulas (will have to be checked out by our game editors9
    2. Insert new HP-related Gear or System
    The requirement for increasing HP (as discussed in https://forum.maplelegends.com/inde...washing-to-be-optional-on-maplelegends.26370/ by akash) is that, on a final note he discussed that a whooping 5k HP is needed to make Washing completely optional (Normally its 99% of the game, counting out Pink Bean and Toad... yeah learn how to dodge at Verga lmao)


    So the major points we can discuss are :
    1. What Gears can be introduced to increase HP?
    2. Can a new System be introduced?
    For the first point we can take a look at the previous events where, possible rings were given out with some major HP/MP Boosting (See Zombie Ring https://maplelegends.com/lib/equip?id=1112920 which you could grab multiple of, during Halloween event)

    One interesting suggestion would be of insert a "Questing" ring (as discussed in https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/formal-proposal-questers-ring.29962/ by Sku)

    Another possible interesting aspect of getting a new Ring could be the "Advancement" ring where, every 10 LVLs, just like the Mob cards Ring, you will be given a quest to complete, maybe to kill a couple of mobs 999 times + some ores to get a new tier of advancement.

    Example being
    Tier 5 Advancement Ring
    LVL 50 required, Quest :

    Kill 999 Stone Golems, 999 Luster Pixie, 999 Croco, 999 Roid, 999 Samiho, 999 Miner Zombie add some more (has to be rewarding to get it)
    Get 10 Aquamarine

    Reward :
    Tier 5 Advancement Ring with Stats as follow :
    ALL STAT + 5 (+1 per Tier)
    HP +375 (+75 per Tier)
    MP +250 (+50 per Tier)
    W.Def + 50 (+10 per Tier)
    M.Def + 50 (+10 per Tier)​
    ~


    For the second point we can look at the HP Boosting system, given from voting (as discussed in https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/the-hp-buff-item-in-depth.36925/ by Pixel)
    Not much can be said here, as Pixel has already discussed quite well in the Thread.​


    With this, I leave you all in this thread to think back about your discussions, hoping that, the Thread will get to a closing end nowadays.

    I will continue to use this Post whenever a new HP Washing Thread pops up discussing about the fixes has to be made or generally new people playing the game and being salty they want to Min/Max their NLs to 30k HP as first chars with 0 day-streak votes.
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 4
  17. Alyosha
    Offline

    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

    924
    635
    413
    Mar 9, 2017
    12:13 PM
    Dostoevsky
    Dark Knight
    200
    Spirit
    One thing about defense buffs is that the gap between mage magic defense and everyone else is rather large. Int directly increases magic defense so the scale for that needs to be pushed to 1300 or maybe even further, as that's a fairly realistic amount of magic defense a mage would have. A good scale for that would involve diminishing returns on magic defense after a certain point, hopefully with still enough give to be considered a buff at all levels of magic defense.
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
  18. Motto
    Offline

    Motto Skelegon

    1,068
    1,139
    428
    Jun 30, 2018
    Male
    Mars
    8:13 PM
    PogShad Motto
    Islander
    201
    Thankfully logarithmic increase has a diminishing increase at a certain point, of course depends on the factor you put in it.
    Atm I'm doing log_2(MDEF) but that could be changed into something else... maybe half the MDEF?
     
  19. jesscapades
    Offline

    jesscapades Pac Pinky

    176
    72
    196
    Jun 24, 2019
    Female
    3:13 PM
    jesscapades
    Shadower
    182
    Homies
    FYI you never changed it
     
  20. Voxtagrams
    Offline

    Voxtagrams Headless Horseman

    885
    381
    376
    Jun 13, 2020
    12:13 PM
    ... You can't edit polls.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1

Share This Page