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Reduce SP Reset Scroll Costs

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by boldaslove, Mar 6, 2021.

  1. boldaslove
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    boldaslove Dark Stone Golem

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    The current prices for skill point resets in cash shop feel punitive for the players. I imagine it paid well for neckson, but since no one is benefitting $ wise, why not make it cheaper for players to fix their mistakes? Making all skill resets jobs 1-4 cost 1k even would encourage players to fix their characters and make the process less burdensome.

    Summary: Prices on SP resets come off as punitive and reducing them all to 1k each is more player friendly.
     
    • Agree Agree x 11
    • Like Like x 1
  2. lv1crook
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    lv1crook Capt. Latanica

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    I agree, I still remember the pain when I maxed out final attack because I forgot it was different in old MS. So much waste
     
  3. Voxtagrams
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    Voxtagrams Headless Horseman

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    They are already lowered for players already, the vanilla price was way more than what it is now.

    Theres this post here
    https://forum.maplelegends.com/inde...s-whats-the-deal-with-them.35864/#post-241192

    I would also like them cheaper, but it is what it is now :(
     
  4. OP
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    boldaslove Dark Stone Golem

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    oh ok. we in there then. i think even making them like totally dirt cheap would be the way, but we good.
     
  5. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Agreed. I don't really see a direct benefit of having easy access to SP resets. Even if they were at 50% of the cost, I don't think they would be utilized all that much outside of resetting past mistakes or adjusting to metas based off of recent balance patches.

    It just feels like it's punishing new players and experimental players for trying things outside of the cookie cutter mold.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  6. SinclairJ
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    SinclairJ Master Chronos

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    I'd hate to see them being dirt cheap, I think 3rd and 4th job could be lowered a bit though.
    There's so many guides on what builds you can use, so much research you can do yourself, we already have HP washing to take into consideration, and leveling takes a while as is. If someone ends up having to spend 50k on SP resets now "on accident" there's a good chance they'd mess up in other areas too. There will always be people that dont read or think, or make mistakes. Much like the whitescrolls being used on accident for example you cant really protect everyone.

    I feel like making them dirt cheap would just result in people min-maxing in some dumb way again, and it just takes away from the importance of building your character right. ( Which I'm not saying is always a good thing, but in this context I think its pretty nice ) Then you have snowflakes like me, if SP resets were dirt cheap I'd probably go one build at the start, and swap to another later so I woulnd't have to bother leveling and still get to have fun with nostalgic skills. I dont wanna use dragonroar anymore, dragonblood looks cool guess I'll swap it. Maybe I cba with early 3rd job chief bandit, meso bomb with the little mesos I have and swap to band of thieves when I hit level 85. 20 resets in 3rd job only cost 76k as is, really not that bad.
     
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  7. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    I've put points into shadow partner which I will reset into meso up when I'm done leveling. I think the cost is fair right now.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  8. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Fair in what way? How exactly is having a cost for SP resets maintaining anything in terms of unfairness?
    The way I see it, it seems to only punish new players for not knowing the nuances of this game that other players might.
    It doesn't impact more knowledgeable players at all since most of them won't ever be using SP resets outside of balance changes.

    So the 'fairness' in keeping costly SP resets is that the people who 'know how to build their characters properly' get to NOT use NX while those who do not are left disadvantaged?
     
  9. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    Since I never responded in that thread the vanilla prices are as follows:
    [​IMG]

    So they are already reduced by at least 50%. This thread is probably a similar example as the AP reset thread: We can make them cheaper all we can but people probably end up wanting them even cheaper.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  10. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    Fair as in I gain a significant boost in attack power when lvling my meso up mule at the cost of about 2-3 weeks of voting (depending on how much SP I end up spending). It's worth the price to me that's why I think It's fair.

    As for balance patch changes I believe after the last heavens hammer change we got reduced cost SP resets but we didn't have that after the taunt change (afaik), that's something that should be consistent.

    About the argument of being uninformed. Yea informed players will have an advantage in pretty much any aspect of this game. Being uninformed is a choice though, there's plenty of good guides and community support to be found.
     
  11. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Do you not see my point, though?

    What purpose/balance does it really serve to keeping SP resets at a cost?
    Personally, I don't think your fringe example is a point of contention because leeching a meso up mule from 70-78 would take literally 2 hours instead of the 2 weeks of SP resets you're proposing.

    Even if SP resets were 100% free, at most, people would utilize their SP for specific situations, kind of like talent tree re-allocations in other games depending on what role you are playing. Is this really such a bad thing to have in Maplestory?

    At worst, it causes new and uninformed players to be set back even further from simple mistakes. At best -- what even is the 'best' case scenario for having SP resets at cost?

    I'm in the camp that generally hates handholding and making things easier, but SP resets are such a small part of this game that I don't think it really should be gated in such a way.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  12. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    maybe we can talk about potential problems that will arise when put to extreme, say, SP resets being at only 1 NX.

    How much does it affects game play in anyway?
    How does these epic min-maxing involving using SP-Resets affects power-leveling when put in comparison to leeching?

    If there are potential issues, then at least there's room for arguments.
    If there are no potential issues, then imo we are just gatekeeping players, even if its minor, from wanting to test out different builds.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    why are cosmetics not 1 nx why are you gatekeeping users from trying out different looks
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
  14. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    The difference between gating cosmetics behind NX and SP resets behind NX is that SP resets actually impact game play. Cosmetics can be seen as frivolous and fun and never holds an immediate demand. Having messed up SP due to misinformation could be detrimental for a new player.

    Imagine a new level 60 player that accidentally leveled up final attack. Resetting 30 SP at that point of their time in Legends would be an extremely daunting task. Their options would be - voting for 2 full weeks (probably same length of time it took to get to lvl 60), abandoning their character to restart, or to quit altogether.

    Like I said, it punishes new players more harshly than more informed ones. 90% of the time, it won't even impact the playerbase. But when it does, it's generally skewed to impact the newer players.

    Edit: Also to address the point that it's similar to AP resets being reduced in price -- it's really not. AP Resets are a fundamental point of balance in this server. Messing around with its attainability would shift a lot of other things in this game. I don't really see this being the same for SP resets and skill point allocation.

    Edit2: My suggestion would be to keep SP reset costs for 1st & 2nd job very, very low as that's where most of the problems lie, and for 3rd and 4th job to remain the same.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. SinclairJ
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    SinclairJ Master Chronos

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    With current prices its really not that big of an NX investment, if someone messes up their SP there's gonna be a small impact and its not even permanent. Someone who is going to be so misinformed about what skills to use is almost certainly going to be misinformed about washing too, and who knows what else. They're "doomed" from the moment they decided to do everything blindly.

    Like what is the point of making them cheaper, if they're dirt cheap SP would become a joke and people would go bananas with weird strategies again. so what. 50% off? So the three people that didn't read anything only have to vote for 5 days to fix their mistake instead of 10, after that, why do they have to wait 5 days if we can make it 3? And why do you think 3rd and 4th job prices are ok, but the few 10k people have to spend in 1st job and 2nd job are not? Do people suddenly decide to delve into the hundreds of guides when they hit 3rd job but do everything blindly in 1st and 2nd?
     
  16. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    There are cosmetics in the AP Reset Shop? MapleF6
     
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  17. Motto
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    Motto Skelegon

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    Sadly they wouldn't be able of resetting all SPs, only 29 of them.

    Take into account, I'm 4th job and I have 13 SPs in a skill I won't be using until maybe LVL 17x+
    It would take me 14ish days atm to reset them.
     
  18. SinclairJ
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    SinclairJ Master Chronos

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    It’s why I mentioned in my first post, I don’t think there’s really an issue but if anything it’s moreso the later job advancements that can be troubling, in the late game we have balance updates that sometimes change the meta, ap washing is essentially a constant cost at that point, etc.
     
  19. RegalStar
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    RegalStar Nightshadow

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    Warrior: can reset out of max HP Increase at the start of each level and reset back in when they're about to level (only relevant until early 20s as they eventually run out of skills to invest in)

    Paladin: can freely grab ACB first and put 20-odd points in stance or blast or something else before switching into hammer at level 131 (people already do this, though only for ACB); can freely switch in and out of Hammer depending on whether they're grinding or bossing (relevant all the way to at least into 160s)

    Dark Knight: Basically no longer has to sacrifice points for going hybird at all, can freely switch between so many spear/polearm specific skills that I don't even want to list them all

    Magician: can reset out of max MP increase at the start of each level and reset back in when they're about to level (only relevant until mid 20s as they eventually run out of skills to invest in)

    F/P Wizard: can freely grab fire arrow first and reset points out of it into Poison Breath when the latter is finally relevant

    F/P Mage: can freely grab explosion or something and reset into Poison Mist when the latter is finally relevant (I believe it needs to be maxed, or close to it, to actually be useful)

    F/P Archmage: can freely switch between a grind focused build (meteor/MW mostly) and boss focused build (paralyze and such) early on, even in Zakum as they can meteor the arms until the numbers dwindle, then reset into paralyze right there

    I/L wizard: can freely exchange between cold beam and thunderbolt depending on whether they're fighting a boss (in a PQ) or grinding/killing mobs; they'll probably end up switching points out of thudnerbolt into cold beam in the end as thunderbolt is useless post 2nd job while cold beam has a very niche use (against Targa)

    I/L Archmage: can freely switch between a grind focused build (blizzard/MW mostly) and boss focused build (chain lightning and such) early on, even in Zakum as (same as above)

    Cleric: can switch freely between MP eater and party support skills depending on whether they're grinding or PQing

    Priest: can switch freely between Holy Symbol and Shining Ray early on depending on whether they're solo grinding or in a party

    Bishop: can freely switch between party skills depending on the situation. How does CD on resurrection work if you reset out of it/into it while it's still in CD? I don't even know but knowing this game there's probably an exploit for it somewhere if free SP switching is a thing

    Ranger/Sniper: can freely switch between mobbing skills and strafe/puppet if they want to go HH early

    Bowmaster: Hamstring can be switched in and out all the way into very late 4th job as it is only relevant against specific bosses.

    Marksman: can grab SE early on until 133 or so then reset into snipe, and reset out of snipe and back into SE if they want to go Zakum or something.

    Chief Bandit: can switch freely between Meso Explosion build and Band of Thieves build early 3rd job depending on what they want to do

    Shadower: a number of their skills are only applicable in bossing (smokescreen, assassinate) or grinding (taunt) and they'll be able to freely switch between them.

    Brawler: They can now completely cover sin job in LPQ because they can just swap points from Flash Fist or something into Double Shot just for stage 7. Max HP Increase can be resetted into before each level all the way into late 2nd job (or even late 3rd job).

    Buccaneer: Probably the biggest winner of this hypothetical "free SP reset" change, because they can basically swap every single SP they invest in 4th job (except 1 point in SI) depending on situation. SI between 2 to 11 isn't relevant if they're not partied with a class that needs it (they don't need level 11 SI themselves); Dragon Strike and Snatch aren't very relevant in bossing; Barrage, Demolition, TL and orb aren't relevant in grinding; Hero's Will is only relevant in HT and Vergamot, and MW can be freely switched in and out depending on whether they're partied with someone with it or not. TL, being a long CD skill, can probably be exploited with SP reset somehow like resurrection.

    Outlaw: Can switch freely between Burst Fire and Flamethrower depending on where they're training

    Corsair: Although not to the extent as Buccaneers, they also have a large number of skills that can be categorized as mostly only useful in grinding (Torpedo, Air Strike, Elemental Boost?) and only useful in bossing (Cannon, Rapid Fire, Bullseye) and they'll be able to switch freely between them until very high levels when they finally have SP to get everything.
     
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  20. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Fun fact (and sort of unrelated), I believe someone tried this out in order to have a smaller -MP cost. But turns out even with max MP increase lvl 0, mages have a static -MP cost of 30.
     

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