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Medium CL bounces are bugged in HT

Discussion in 'Report Bugs' started by Edann, Mar 1, 2021.

  1. Edann
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    Edann Slimy Retired Staff

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    Oct 24, 2020
    3:43 PM
    Edann
    I/L Arch Mage
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    Description of the bug: HT's heads are way within CL bounce range yet it does not bounce between them, and only bounces to the legs and tail.

    What is supposed to happen?:CL should bounce between the 3 heads.
    Where did you find and/or notice this bug?:HT
    A step-by-step guide to re-producing this bug (optional):Cast maxed CL on either of HT's heads.
    Extra information (optional): As commonly legs and tail are taken care of first in HT runs, I/Ls are left hitting basically single target on only either 1 of the 3 heads most of the fight, hurting their already low dps compared to other classes, making them even more laughably in-viable to run even in very high levels.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Informative Informative x 2
  2. BananaPie
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    BananaPie Selkie Jr.

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    1:43 PM
    What happens after the legs/tail goes down. Does CL only hit the head you target or do the subsequent hits go to wings/arms?
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Edann
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    Edann Slimy Retired Staff

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    Edann
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    It'll only hit the head. At least from what I remember from my previous and only ever HT run. I wasn't able to test as people rather take a beginner than an I/L to HT and this party agreed to just have me tag to record this for the bug report then gtfo.
     
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  4. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    9:43 AM
    iPippy
    CL likely has the same "bounce" code as energy orb, and something is making the game consider all of ht (minus the tail) be considered as one entity, preventing bounce. Orb (and cl) will bounce from any part to the tail, though as you mention tail us among the first to go. Itll even bounce from mid head to cornians on the ground when the mid head ducks, so the effect box "can" move.

    Even if this manages to get fixed though, cl should not be the option of choice over blizzard until there are fewer parts left (probably 3-4 depending on if you can find a moment to swap ele wands).
     
  5. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

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    10:43 PM
    Verdict
    Bishop
    WeenieHutJrs
    Sorry to OP but I disagree this should be treated as 'bug' because :

    1. It was same in pre-BB KMS. also same from launching of ML. No idea for GMS because I haven't played it, but for pre-BB KMS, it's exactly same with current ML for CL.

    2. HT heads actual hitboxes are on center belly of HT. When ppl attack AOE skills on heads, you'll see hit effects come up on HTs belly, not on head. (For example, brandish, demolition, bstep, dstrike). Maybe cuz of this reason, unlike 'It should be', HT parts actual hitboxes are beyond range of CL can move over so you can't 'cleave' HT parts with CL. (Also same reason, bishes need to dispel on HTs belly when heads are buffed, instead of around heads)

    Welcome to HT, it's still impressive that you're bossing
     
  6. whatdatoast
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    whatdatoast Windraider

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    6:43 AM
    whatdatoast
    Bowman
    Did staff intend CL/energy orb to hit multiple heads with the latest head hitbox cleave changes? It seemed like they did with the patch note description, but never got confirmation.
     
  7. Jaewonnie
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    Jaewonnie Capt. Latanica

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    9:43 AM
    PAWGChamp
    Buccaneer
    The effects for CL and energy orb (and I think mage ults too?) actually appear on the heads/arms instead of the ass. Why this inconsistency exists for diff skills idk
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. OP
    OP
    Edann
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    Edann Slimy Retired Staff

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    Edann
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    Thanks for the insight. Just because it was a bug in original maple (a game that is notoriously buggy to the point the entire meta of this server relies on it) indeed makes the "bug" perspective change a bit, but I'd like to stress that I don't think it means this shouldn't be looked into or fixed if possible, especially in context of how under-utilized AMs are in this current server meta.

    EDIT: Just remembered - Zakum has moving parts and multiple hitboxes but CL bounces perfectly between it, just as the skill should. It's impossible for me to imagine this was intended behavior.
     
  9. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

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    Bishop
    WeenieHutJrs
    Yes. It's obviously weird that CL should be moved over heads in visual, but because of mismatch of actual hitbox/visual, it doesn't.
    I'd say, whether staff team see this as 'weird', or, 'should be, because it's authentic', is matter for this topic.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

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    WeenieHutJrs
    Because those skills are different types. this rolls into matter of how skill works. (like, mechanism).

    for skills like has 'bullet' parameter in skill.wz file, its hit effect appears on visual parts. CL, TT, cane, cannon, and so on.
    otherwhile, which doesn't have and act as hitbox, its hit effect appears on belly. brandish, demo, bstep, and so on.

    just typical neckson stuffs :p
     
  11. OP
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    Edann
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    Edann Slimy Retired Staff

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    Bump for staff attention hopefully ;_;
     
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  12. Voxtagrams
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    Voxtagrams Headless Horseman

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    6:43 AM
    pepehands.png

    I/L ArchMage lives matter.

    Pls fix :(
     
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  13. Mirrors
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    Mirrors Zakum Retired Staff

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    Staff are looking into whether or not this is even possible to be fixed in the first place
     
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    • Like Like x 1
  14. KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    2:43 PM
    KurayamiLove/Nagrom/Amatista
    Buccaneer
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    Chain Lighting like Energy Orb while bossing is pretty bad, is almost impossible to hit more than one target let alone reach 6. Would be cool if the range of these skills bounces would be better.
     
  15. OP
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    Edann
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    Edann Slimy Retired Staff

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    I don't know much about Orb, but I agree with you to an extent on CL - I think there's a handful of different approaches to making CL more versatile and useful, but I think that'll require a more in depth discussion-type feedback thread. For now, even just making our current implementation of CL bounce properly in HT would make it far more viable to use.

    Fingers crossed! Either way - very much appreciated, thank you!
     
  16. OP
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    Edann
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    Edann Slimy Retired Staff

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    Edann
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    Digging around I think I was able to determine the cause of this. I'll share it here in hop(ium)es it could help if or when this is attempted!

    It looks like the game distinguishes between 2 kinds of hitboxes for bosses that have multiple mobs and share the same HP bar. This is true for PB, HT, and Zakum (didn't confirm if this is the case with Ergoth yet) EDIT: nvm Ergoth's HP bar isn't shared lol.

    To differentiate, let's call them:
    1. "Actual hitbox" - the hitbox players physically hit, and get hit by when touched.
    2. "Boss center" - a special hitbox all boss parts share, and is usually found at the center of the map.

    Unfortunately, and for who knows what reason, it looks like once CL hits a boss part, it then attempts to jump from the boss center, rather than the actual hitbox of the part hit. This is also what makes players need to dispel horntail or zakums buffs by casting dispel at the bottom center of the map, rather then next to the parts themselves.

    This is also what makes CL barely able to bounce to mobs summoned by bosses like Verga, Nibergen, Ravana and even Zakum.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    Interesting find, Ergoth doesn't share the hp bar with it's statues btw.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1

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