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CWKPQ Tier List

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by akashsky, Mar 17, 2021.

  1. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    upload_2021-3-20_16-55-38.png

    upload_2021-3-16_21-41-2.png
    A Tier:
    Bowmaster and Marksman. These are the only two classes that literally cannot be muled for cwkpq due to their respective portions of the PQ actually requiring damage to clear. Without an archer, you cannot cwkpq. They are also very good at keeping the pirate aggression at bay so that the other range DPS can focus down the mage boss.

    B Tier:
    For the range DPS, nightlord and corsair reign supreme. Corsair is significantly better than nightlord here (assuming that the archer can control pirate aggro). The simplicity of the fight means that corsairs won't be losing their battleship and can simply stand and shoot. A nightlord cannot hope to match a free fire corsair. NL is not a bad choice, however.

    For the cleave, hero and dark knights are the meta pick. They have the highest 3 target DPS in the game, and cwkpq just so happens to be a 3 target cleave fight.

    C Tier:
    Buccaneer is kinda in a limbo spot. They can function as a range or cleave attacker, but do not particularly excel at either role. SI is a very good support skill, and it especially helps the top tier cleave perform better.

    Paladin and shadowers are both inferior to hero / drk when it comes to cleaving 3 targets. Paladin also has problems against the mage boss, and the beginning guardians (as they are immune to all elements). Overall, I would rank shadower higher than paladin, but they are both significantly outperformed by hero and drk.

    D tier:
    The archmages make up D tier. They are basically cleave attackers, but have less DPM than shadower / paladin. I rarely ever see mages brought as cleave attackers. In this specific case, ice lightning is slightly better than fire poison because it does extra damage to the thief boss, which is usually the last boss to fall in cwkpq. This means that if you have an ice lightning, the bosses will likely die closer together, meaning more 3 target cleave uptime for the other cleave attackers.

    F Tier:
    Bishop is F tier not because of their low damage, but because half the bosses are straight up immune to holy (Archer, Thief, Mage). Bishops could not actually cleave even if they wanted to because they would only hit 1 target a time.
     
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  2. Mageor
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    Mageor Mr. Anchor

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    Agree with the damage portion of bishops, but I feel it should be a higher tier than Arch Mages as they provide HS :p

    Also can add as a mini cleave for spawns (except Crimson Guardian) from cleave bosses
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Cashew2
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    Cashew2 Orange Mushroom

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    Bishops dispelling mage boss' damage reduction is also pretty nice, I've never actually tested the difference, but it definitely makes a significant impact. Very easily muleable though
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  4. Bax
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    Bax Orange Mushroom

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    Paragax; Qishop
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    Archers are always the superior class
     
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  5. whatdatoast
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    whatdatoast Windraider

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    I'm curious what the 3-cleave dpm is for these tiers? I think my chain lightning gets like 7-8m dpm on 3-cleave, but I heard warriors get like 10+?
     
  6. xadra
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    xadra Capt. Latanica

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    Level 170 paladin on middling equipments, rage and SI got around 10-11m (used to be 12-13m with HH). Would probably do a lot worse without SI.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. berbin
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    berbin Red Snail

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    Absolute trash gear 18x hero and I get like 15m 3 target cleave with SI. Probably closer to 13-14 without SI
     
  8. FatSloth
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    FatSloth Windraider Retired Staff

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    Its genuine pain to get people to put me on ranged for bucc. I think we function much better on ranged if its a 5 man or lower.The utility on cleave is entirely in si and we can pretty easily finish mage alone then go help cleave if they havent finished yet. In 6 or higher it definitely doesn't matter though
     
  9. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

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    Actually, fixed mind like 'range must hit mage' is silly. anyone can hit mage, is good. (just RIP for pallies and AM)
    as FatSlothFatSloth said, it's a pain for bucc to tank whole time in cleave side if bucc isn't heavily washed. and they're awesome attacker for mage also, thanks for barrage->DS combo, which is nice for single-target DPM.
    this applies same for shad also.

    when your members have enough signs so any DPM is good to go, just 1 archer to bait pirate, and literally 'any classes' do DPM, is all you need for opening cwkpq gate.

    problem is, we usually gets NL in general for party, and they won't give mage position to others because cleave part is a pain and mage is yummy :kekw:

    (but yes, most of attackers are much better than intlords who even can't pin mage)
     
  10. FatSloth
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    FatSloth Windraider Retired Staff

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    Ive been overlooked for intlords with half the dpm
    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 6
  11. MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    DK with SI SE can easily clear 15m and by endgame can be doing 25m on cider.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
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  12. Jaewonnie
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    Jaewonnie Capt. Latanica

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    That's actually not bad. Cleave bucc at the same level prolly does no more than 8-9m dpm (need to hit 3 targets to out-dpm single target skill). However, thief boss has this jumping attack all the time so in practice, the dpm will be lower. Usually when I'm on cleave, I still spam single target skill and try to focus theif/warrior.
     
  13. boldaslove
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    boldaslove Dark Stone Golem

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    I think this is more a CLEAR list than a TIER list considering it addresses needs above all else. Just my 2c. For CWK I think most classes are viable and you can mix and match almost any as long as, like you said, you can clear Archer.
     
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  14. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    Unless the bosses get separated, there really isnt a way to pick which boss gets targeted. It should always focus the first in the spawn order, which oddly enough, varies by run. If it were my choice I'd always want thief priority, but it seems most often warrior and sometimes archer back when I ran. Cleave will almost always be using cleaving attacks until the last boss (thief) dies, so barrage or demo (or nate) damage not on thief is kinda wasted from a clear time standpoint. We're a 6 cleave living in a 3 cleave world SlimeCool
     
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  15. TennGohan
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    TennGohan Mushmom

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    Great tier list. However, I am really curious as to why a bucc is a tier above a shad while I always thought they would be a tier below shad/pally. Below are some of my thoughts, would love to see what others have to say.


    Cleave

    Shads do way more 3 cleave dpm than buccs if the bucc is using snatch (1.5-2.0x bucc dpm). However i've never seen a bucc actually using snatch, they usually just single target. If your lucky to target the thief boss then it can speed up the cleave part by a bit but otherwise a bucc on cleave will hardly speed up the run. A shad does a lot less dpm then hero/dk but is a solid cleave and significantly speeds up cleave compared to bucc. A 15x shad and 15x hero/dk can duo cleave while a 15x hero/dk with a 15x bucc would likely struggle.

    Mage Boss

    Shads and buccs are probably similar if they are on the mage boss. Buccs have slightly higher single target dpm than shads on paper, however they probably lose some dpm having to go si the cleave. Shads also get a dpm boost by charging nate, especially if the bish is not dispelling the mage boss.

    Value of SI

    Regarding SI, lets assume a hero can maintain 15m dpm while all 3 bosses are up, then SI would increase the dpm by about 1.5m (ST heros get about 10% dpm increase from SI), this really isn’t much. This is because the bucc is taking an attacker spot and the increase in hero/dk dpm from SI is far less than then the buccs own cleave dpm compared to having a shad who could be doing around 9-11m dpm evenly across cleave which speeds up the run, while its hard to put a value on how much single target bucc speeds up cleave. If a 5 man run has 2 warriors, a sair and a mm, then SI would be huge but that does not happen often. TL could be nice if someone dies twice or the hs does not have res. Smoke is nice against stuns in cleave but does not speed up the run by much.
     
  16. OP
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    akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    You do bring up some good points, however the cheaper option for hero isn't ST, but dragon claymore - which gains a lot more from SI. So I would rate the value of SI higher than you do in your post.

    That being said, I have moved buccs down to the shadower / paladin tier and adjusted it accordingly.
     
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  17. Jaewonnie
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    Jaewonnie Capt. Latanica

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    To put some numbers in perspective, I just did a cwk on my bucc (lv180 ass-tier equips w/ mw20+rage) and tried some snatch vs demo.

    Demo yields about 7m dpm.
    Snatch yields anywhere from 6-7m dpm.

    I could only get the higher end of the dpm when charged (have stance). When uncharged you're a pinball most of the time which is an issue since you want to be positioned far away enough from the wall in order to reliably hit all the bosses but also close enough to the wall so that you don't snatch the bosses out of position. On top of that, if you aren't hugging the wall you're more likely to get status spammed. With demo, you're less susceptible to all of these problems since you can just hug the wall and you don't have a hitbox half the time. However I think most of the missing snatch dpm comes from thief boss jumping around.

    So tldr just put bucc on mage (although pirate boss is pure ass as bucc; demo afaik cannot outrange his dispel). As for trying to get demo to focus a certain boss, I need to test it out more. Sometimes a quick barrage on your intended focus when spawning seems to make it work. Sometimes not. Haven't really tested this enough to be certain. If it works 1/3 of the time then it means it doesn't work at all lol.
     

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