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Information Preview of some of the revamped maps

Discussion in 'MapleLegends Announcements' started by Kimmy, Apr 3, 2021.

  1. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    Disclaimer:

    - This is something *I* am working on, which means it does not go away from actual dev time
    - We have multiple developers working on different things right now
    - This post is purely for transparency and feedback purposes

    The reason why I am adding this disclaimer is that the last time I made a similar topic we were told by a few "we are working on useless things instead of the more important things", with the assumption that either I do everything, or that we only have 1 developer, which neither is true.
    ---------
    Hello all,

    As some saw in my April 1st topic I am currently working on some overhaul of maps. The purpose of the overhaul is to make some maps more interesting, but also fun to use.

    One concern very quickly bought up is that flat maps are favoured more because you can attack much easier, and the shittier Forest of Dead Trees from later versions was bought up because it's a fact the newer version is worse.

    However, one thing to be kept in mind regarding that map is that no teleporters existed, which will in the revamped versions, personally added by myself, in a similar way as the map tweaks from previous patches.

    I'll be showing a few maps from both Ariant and Magatia from their revamped state. As one guessed already; they are from a later version of the game. However, the teleporters have been added by myself, as well as some spawn tweaks.

    Example 1 (Outside North Entrance of Ariant)
    https://kimberly.s-ul.eu/Jk48KKXn

    This one does not contain many interesting changes. However, the map is still quite flat, has much more mobs, and is also much longer.

    The map being much longer encourage 1 person attacking the mobs from the left, and a party member attacking the mobs from the right, encouraging party play and map management.

    Teleporters have been added to go to each side, as well as another teleport to get to the top, to clean the top mobs. Much more mobs have been added spawn wise as well, making it not feel deserted (heh).

    Example 2 (Dry Desert)
    https://kimberly.s-ul.eu/xstg20mD

    This is one of the taller but small maps. In here, teleporters have been added on both sides, making getting to the top easy to do. Not too much has to be said about this one. The Hidden Street has been made visible for more user-friendly accessibility of the available maps. While the discussion often would be bought up that finding hidden streets is more fun, all hidden streets are now available in Libraries, guides, and knowledge anyway. Keeping them hidden will only add struggle to new users.

    Magatia

    Example 1 (Lab-area-c2)
    https://kimberly.s-ul.eu/yi3peowD

    Similar to one of the Ariant examples, this map is much longer now, with added teleporters. In newer versions, the anti-bot-mobs were removed, which I have re-added for card collecting purposes. Here too you could go with a party and take each side of the map and have spawns continuously coming.

    Example 2 (Lab-unit 102)
    https://kimberly.s-ul.eu/8oyWGrUR

    For the flat map lovers out there, this map is still extremely flat, but also extremely long. With the huge amount of mobs added, as well as teleporters, you can pretty hit mobs at all times.
    ---------
    Do note this is far from all the maps, but purely some examples.

    Hopefully, this helps with having a small idea. Once again this is not the only thing we are working on. Please refer back to the disclaimer at the beginning of this post.
     
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  2. Pixel
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    Pixel Mixed Golem

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    I like the idea of teleporters
    Sadly it also would feel more like a detriment to Ariant more than a help

    While bigger maps would encourage party party i seriously thing that the old v62 Ariant is in no place to really afford such extensions

    Like other than card hunting, people 28-35 would go there for questing and get to 35 usually solo, only ive seen new players who came with friends doing the quests and it was rare

    But since the maps are bigger and the density has been thinned i feel like doing the quests will be a lot more tedious than it has been in the past

    And ihonestly Ariant questing has been one of my favorite things to do, was a breather from PQing or grinding at 20-30 before restarting on the same in Ludibrium

    The monsters are low level, the frame of ''grinding'' there is too small
    Ariant is too far, 2 ships away so for a beginner to travel just for a map that will probably will growo ut of soon doesn't seem attractive

    In newer versions big maps work , cuz mobility is bigger, everyone has flash jump , and bigger map attacks and most importantly these mobs are no longer 20-30 but instead 70+
    Their staying pressence is bigger and even then, only a few maps really were relevant, ironically the ones that stayed small, like Sahel or the other hidden street ones

    While i love the intention of inciting party play by making maps larger, i don't think Ariant being a pre-2nd job area needs this

    It just brings me to an old discussion i had for example about the old beta subway where the bubblings are
    Someone told me way before Bubblings was a big map with 4 segments, and cuz of that mob density would often tilt towards one of the quadrants sometimes forcing new players to go to a section full of neckies that they couldnt kill to clear the bubbling only seciton, not to mention the walking,

    This was all fun for players who could kill who were way past the intended level, but for new players it was so painful, that no one ever went to bubblings until it was split into 4 different maps rather than 4 sectors in one big map
    (Now i want to put a disclaimer here that while i saw this on other servers i cannot officially validate if it was actually an old feature or just them trying to bs me by making that map worse)

    But yeah
    TL;DR 20-30 Areas shouldn't be bigger
    You're gonna make the areas more.... deserted
    Pun not intended
     
    • Agree Agree x 13
  3. OP
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    Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    I am aware Ariant and Magatia are low-level areas. I showcase Ariant and Magatia here, but it's not the only places I am currently doing. I have also added teleporters already to existing places for the next patch, and Ariant and Magatia are moreso the areas that are used as an example here.

    As for accessibility, I do agree that going to Ariant and Magatia is quite a pain. In the earlier levels, there's a quest in Perion which allows you to get to Ariant without travelling at all, but at later levels this gets disabled. However, honestly, accessibility on non-Victoria Road maps are tedious in general, due to the lack of teleporters. You can example get easily to Leafre by using a seed, but not every region is like that. In a perfect world, it probably should, which is likely why later versions of the game added additional ways to get to places easier, so it's more encouraging to go everywhere, instead of only the places that take the least amount of time.
     
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  4. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    I don't believe that more spawns are to the benefit of low level characters, especially separated into so many platforms. It seems like something only mages can enjoy, as new players aren't nuking 50 mobs in a spawn wave, they're killing maybe 10 or fewer before the next ones spawn in. With a level 20-40 ranged character in mind it sort of just looks like you'll spend a lot of time just running away from everything as hoards chase you down.

    Personally, while training an Outlaw there are places where I need to decide to use half or a quarter of a map because there are far too many mobs to be anywhere near effective at killing them, so I designate most of maps to accumulate mobs that I won't touch, otherwise I get overrun.

    More is only better when considering a certain type of game play, with mages and mobbing you can get some massive exp but ranged characters just aren't built for those maps, and they're the ones who are the most desperate for new options as they earn some of the lowest exp in the game, where near the end of 3rd job you can only muster a quarter to a third the exp that leech achieves.
     
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  5. OP
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    Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    Do you have any suggestions yourself?
     
  6. Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    I think of Ariant mainly as a spot for questing. The Sunset Road maps (I think that's what they're called?) between Ariant and Magatia are actually quite nice for some classes to grind and could maybe be improved, but Ariant, I don't know... It's a very custom change that seems out of place. I think it would be cool to get more people in Magatia though as like an alternative for Ghost Ship and Gallos or whatever, but I don't like just making the maps longer. Long maps are really boring and hard to navigate, especially without teleport or haste. I'd prefer more vertical maps or more platforms or something.
     
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  7. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    I suppose anything with higher hp, >10% exp/hp ratio, on a rather low spawn map with either slow mobs or safespots would make for ideal ranged training circumstances. The changes to iframes on things like Elderwraiths actually made them pretty decent for farming money/okay exp on a ranged character, because they are rather slow, allowing people to freefire without being overwhelmed due to only having 6 spawns in the map. That map by itself is already good, but more mobs won't improve that, rather they'd have to be buffed by increasing the exp in order to improve ranged characters.

    For lower levels the ideal circumstances mostly revolve around having safespots available. Classes like archers tend to be stuck in place, they are slow without haste or any movement abilities so anytime a mob is in their face is a time where they are in trouble, they either need to be stunned or knocked back in order to be effective.

    Places like Monkey Forest II are excellent for staying safe in order to train, because there are platforms where mobs cannot reach. The big maps would be nice for training on ranged characters if some of the platforms had no mobs spawning on them. With that the maps would probably be good options for ranged, melee, and for leeching.
     
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  8. OP
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    Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    This is actually something I never considered. I believe in the original version of the 'revamped' version, some of the platforms had no mobs on them. Would undoing that make the changed maps more appreciated? That way also less mobs are spread on the platforms in general, keeping the people that prefer the flat versions still happy as well.
     
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  9. Doguu
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    Doguu Pink Teddy

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    Even if the decision later on isn't to replace the original maps, maybe mini-dungeons, new quests or events could house these areas.
     
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  10. Almighty404
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    Almighty404 Red Snail

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    I love you, Kimmy...

    But I don't think this is a move Legends should make. Perhaps a 'little' bit of tweaking is good for some of the more... controversial maps, but If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    I think what makes Legends shine is the fact that it sticks to its roots.

    Your efforts are astounding, and I don't think you should listen to those that consider any of your efforts 'useless'.

    Love you, Mom. MapleF16
     
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  11. Chris
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    Chris Zakum Retired Staff

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    Agree with this & came to write the same thing. They look cool but I think replacing the maps outright is a bad move. Having them as mini dungeons tucks them away nicely while keeping the original look of the town untouched.
     
  12. OP
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    Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    hmmm. The dungeon idea is actually not the worst idea, since it's adding content without removing any. Thanks for the responses everyone so far! That's the purpose of those threads after all ;)

    This is actually something I never considered. I believe in the original version of the 'revamped' version, some of the platforms had no mobs on them. Would undoing that make the changed maps more appreciated? That way also less mobs are spread on the platforms in general, keeping the people that prefer the flat versions still happy as well.

    Still looking for a reply regarding this.
     
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  13. Almighty404
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    Almighty404 Red Snail

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    Mini Dungeon: Henesys Pig Farm

    This map is a Mini Dungeon (Instance), it's all flat, and has areas for ranged characters to attack mobs safely. It satisfys a lot of propositions.

    Adding custom Mini Dungeons to 'areas' that are devoid of them can help balance what the 'area' is lacking as a whole. For example, if the sorounding maps (6-10 or so in either direction) of a particular map in an area are all quite hilly, adding a nice flat Mini Dungeon could be a breath of fresh air, as long as it makes sense I guess.

    You can sculpt these Mini Dungeons from the ground up as well, and be really creative. You can 'borrow' assets from the sorounding maps, or somewhere completely different for some flavour.
     
  14. Voxtagrams
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    Voxtagrams Headless Horseman

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    https://kimberly.s-ul.eu/xstg20mD

    You can tell Kimmy was having too much fun that Le Petit Prince got smacked too, poor Prince..


    Anyways thanks Kimmy for adding in shortcut portals around the maps :D
     
  15. RainbowYarn
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    RainbowYarn Pink Teddy

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    Buffing monster spawn/exp would be good in places that aren't used. Like El Nath with those low level monsters. I assume they are all fire weak so it would be a good place for FP wizards to train if there were buffs in such places.

    El Nath, Aqua, and Orbis aren't used very much for grinding, so maybe the lower levels in those areas could be improved.
     
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  16. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    I dont think it is as bad as people are claiming to be changing some maps. For places like ariant/magatia, players go there for a couple quick levels (questing, not even to grind), leave and then never come back. We're preserving these awful maps for 5 minutes of nostalgia? I agree not every map should be changed or it's an entirely different region, but a few new maps has the potential to liven up the area, the long maps even have the teleporters to get to the other side even faster than the original map.

    Personally though, I've never been a fan of mini dungeons. It heavily encourages solo play, as you wont see people even if you wanted to. I can understand the need on popular maps, but if the attempt is to promote party/group play, mini dungeons stand against that, instead social distancing each user into their own instance.

    The biggest issue of all isnt necessarily a map layout issue, but a cultural one. Players are taught to promote solo grind, sometimes duo grind, or leech from a low level. If a map has mobs to sustain a third or more, it becomes leech haven. The only map I can think that really escapes that mold is mp3. It's an impossible task to party for it though as everyone is told that gs2 is the best map there (and it is for the afkers). Even if these maps or others that have already been touched can support an entire party and give optimal epm, good luck finding enough people to go there when there are decent solo or afk alternatives or leech spots to hold people's attention.

    Iirc, the issues with free-insta tele to ariant is a non-trivial pre quest and the fact it closes at 30, before it even becomes relevant (gotta be in Victoria at 30 for 2nd job). Regarding level at least, does anything break if the free tele got bumped to users below level 35 (or even 40?). Players might still not know about the quest, but itd actually be a useful teleport during the levels users would *want* to go there.
     
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  17. Annolis
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    Annolis Skelegon

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    I think your addition of the teleporters in Magatia are okay, while the elongation of the maps are probably not necessary. I grind on one map frequently these days to collect the Slime Cubes so my chars can purchase the King Slime Cards for a discount. I've already taken my chars through the Nihal Desert to get the cards in some of those maps. They were all levels 70-80 when they did the low level maps, and the maps were perfectly fine.

    Honestly, the fact that Manji's quest is disabled at level 30 was frustrating. You HAVE to use Manji at level 29 in order to quickly get Byron's special quest at level 30 for a bonus of approximately 10k experience before getting 2nd Job. Most of the quests in Ariant become available at level 29, which means you can warp over, get through some of the quests by the time you hit 30, then get Byron's quest before using Karcasa to warp back, and then it's two boat rides back to Ariant after you're 2nd Job. Why can't Manji's quests be used until 31 or 35?

    I honestly believe the maps of the Nihal Desert are not the problem, it's the accessibility of Nihal Desert. This will be a total reversal of my position on another string, but ever since the Warp Tickets from the Nautilus to Omega Sector have been put into the game, I must say the tedium of having to get to Omega Sector for card collection has been greatly reduced and is much appreciated. I know I railed against it before, but now that it's here I can attest that it was a good decision. I'd be willing to experiment on how to make the Nihal Desert more accessible.

    Some ideas:
    Since Ariant is mostly for levels 28 - 40, I think allowing Manji's warp quest to continue beyond level 29 is a good start.
    Because the Nihal Desert is sandwiched between the Minar Forest and the Mu Lung Gardens, perhaps allowing accessibility between these region would be not only beneficial, but also gives the game some continuity. Perhaps, in Mu Lung: Peach Tree Farm 3 there could be a portal with a new map that's semi-desert and a sunset background with a portal that takes you to Magatia? Perhaps in Minar Forest: East Forest can have a portal to another map that has a portal to Ariant: Cactus Desert 2. These two additions would give players around level 40 access to Mu Lung (and, effectively, Aqua Road to KFT) after they are done with the Ariant quests, as well as give level 70-85 players who might be in Leafre an opportunity to come over to MPQ.
     
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  18. DrJason
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    DrJason Windraider

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  19. INSAINRUSSIA
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    INSAINRUSSIA Horny Mushroom

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    I think you should make the teleporters hidden, catering to casuals is a big nono for me personally. However, I agree with elongating the map. Everyone knows that big game > small game. Man i fucking love this game so much. thanks for keepin it real.

    OH, and that comment you made about the casuals being able to look up the teleporter locations online, then why not just change the location of the hiden teleporters >: )
     
  20. Zapps
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    I think the vikerolas map is a damn near perfect version of a ranged grinding map, maybe adding teleports at the top platforms to allow players to work clockwise through it. as a corsair, i struggle to find maps that allow me to clear in an "optimized fashion". the teleporter update to lower ludi has made that a bit more viable (exp still holds it back unfortunately)
     
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