Silly colored letters thread where we discuss the diversity of classes at our disposal

F. Looks like corsair is actually the worst possible class to use in horntail. Highest dpm I have gotten on stoppers is ~6.4m.

 

Meta changer pog

 

Where is iies

 

Here are some changes I would argue for,
-BM at HT A --> S
In terms of effective dpm averaged over an entire HT run(including preheads) BM is not too different from shadower/dk/pally and slightly below NL/hero. However, the universal necessity of SE that makes this the only class worthy of S tier HT in my opinion. You can run HT with almost every combination of the classes, however nearly every reasonable composition requires an archer. There are many HT runs that fail soley because the archer(s) dc or die, but as an archer you never have to worry about that. While every other class requires either SE or SI to reach their max damage, BM is uniquely able to reach their max damage output solely on self buffs (as long as you have mw20). This means that even if you are running with less reliable people who tend to die/dc, you will always have access to 100% of your damage and can carry the run no matter what.
Not only are BMs sought after has a source of SE, but they can fit onto any party because of of their non-reliance on party buffs. If you are sufficiently washed (or confident in your survival abilities), you can even solo party on runs as a 7th person. With both effective dpm and utility taken into account, BM is without a doubt the easiest class to both host/join runs, and the best class at single handedly carrying weaker groups.
A common refute of this claim of BM superiority is the fact that like HB and SI, the role of SE can be muled. To this challenge I offer 2 counterarguments. Firstly, SE is significantly harder to mule compared to SI and HB. HB mules can be easily pumped to 30k hp and SI mules have their infamous 999 avoid thats to the advent of dex buccs. In comparison, even a purely HP pumped lvl 130 archer can only get up to ~16k hp, which is still somewhat susceptible to death at HT and will certainly burn more pots than the other 2 mules. You can see this in practice from the fact that there are many players with HB, SI, and HH mules in the cave, but it is seldom that you see a run with a dedicated SE mule. Secondly, if you are considering a hypothetical NL +SEmule vs BM situation where you argue that NL + SE mule > BM, you have to take into account that to make it fair it should be NL +SEmule vs BM + HH mule, in which the latter triumphs in terms of total effective dpm(you can still argue that the former is still much easier of course).

-Hero at HT B+ --> A+
-Shadower at HT A+ --> A
In terms of DPM, Hero trumps shadower at every point point in HT (preheads, legs+tail, right side, left side), and at some stages by a pretty significant amount. So unless you REALLY value the smoke utility and pot burn advantages I would put Hero above shad, or at the very least equal to shad. I think that hero, pally and shad should all sit at roughly the same tier. Heroes do the most effective dpm of the trio, but part of that damage is wing damage which often does not contribute to effective dpm. Shadower has the advantage of being un-killable and providing utility via smoke, but is the weakest of the trio in terms of single target dpm. Paladin has the highest single target dpm of trio and is least reliant on wing damage, but they suffer from somewhat awkward positioning require to maximize HH damage. The interpretation of the shad/pally,/hero ordering is up to some debate, but I think all 3 classes should be A tier for sure.

 

Hold up, shads better at ht than NLs? Maybe if u don't look at preheads and have a bish that can tank dispells without issue

 

Hit the spot there hehehe

I do still do like 5-6m dpm (optimal) without se on the heads tho. NLs aren't THAT sad without se. We're basically single target heros without it as far as I've seen

 

There is some truth to this statement. A perfectly geared level 200 nightlord would do about 7m dpm without SE. A perfectly geared 1h HERO would do about 7.5m single target dps.

With both using +20 attack potion.

(Of course if a nightlord doesn't get SE, it makes sense for a hero to not get SI).

If the hero is using a normal speed weapon, the nightlord actually still does more dpm i believe.

 

Can we get a bean update

 

Note: The following is based on damage output. Dark knight / bishops are still useful to the run even though they do the least damage.

Pink bean tier list:
S: Nightlord
A: Bowmaster, Marksman, Buccaneer, Corsair
B: Shadower
C: Hero, Paladin, Fire Poison Archmage, Ice Lightning Archmage
D: Dark Knight, Bishop

 

I've attempted a thread like this before and lets just say I was not qualified lol this looks great though nice job putting it together.

 

So literally Shad>Hero>Paladin if you actually look at it for the top 3. BRB CreatureShad

 

Took a look at this again because law linked it in the shadower discussion thread.

I argue that ice lightning archmage should be moved from F tier in NT to at least B tier. They perform as well as normal attackers on nibergen and nameless due to the lightning weakness, which is half of the NT roster currently.

 

It's not possible for any ice lightning to white my corsair or paladin.

 

Didn’t know this was gonna be a roast thread.