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Making SI work on mages once again

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Shivering, Jun 10, 2021.

  1. Shivering
    Offline

    Shivering Wolfspider

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    Mar 9, 2018
    4:37 AM
    Shivering
    I/L Arch Mage
    183
    Alright so hear me out on this one. When this bug fix first happened, mages were very broken, but in the patches over the last year we've seen repetitive indirect mage nerfs. They are not the grinding or farming powerhouses they once were (although they are definitely still great). I think with the recent change to SI being made +2 from +4, it opens to door to revisit the functionality between mages and SI.

    1) SI helps leech sellers

    Counterargument: SI has been shown to do very little to improve leech EPH numbers. At ulu2 and below it has been show to have almost no impact. At petris and skeles it is about a 5-10% buff to the current optimal rotation. At Shaolin it would be impossible to effectively utilize an SI mule due to the safe spots being nerfed and there being no way to consistently get SI on both mages; also using an SI mule at Shaolin works against you because of the APM you need on each mage to achieve the optimal EPH as is.

    2) SI makes mages broken at bosses.

    Counterargument: With the recent change to SI only providing +2 instead of +4, bishops can not achieve a broken tier of damage with SI any more. In addition to this, the changes last summer to seduce timers made cleave a lot more dangerous so it's not like you can just sit at the bottom and spam gene/blizz/meteor while afk.

    3) This would buff single target mage DPS on skills like paralyze, CL, and angel ray to a respectable level, but not so much so that they would be able to beat out any real single target DPS threats.

    Thanks for reading. Please leave your thoughts/suggestions below.
     
    • Agree Agree x 13
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Great Work Great Work x 2
    • Creative Creative x 1
  2. JKNS
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    JKNS Selkie Jr.

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    Sep 21, 2020
    6:37 AM
    Hero, Dark Knight, F/P Arch Mage, I/L Arch Mage, Bishop, Night Lord
    Even if it would be nice to have the +2 SI on Mages, I don’t see why this needs to be considered. Mages are in a fine place already, why do we need to push them further up? Is this change going to shake up bossing compositions, or just further widen the gap that mages have in farming over other classes?

    I’d much rather see other classes like Paladins and Buccs themselves get buffs before even considering this.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  3. OP
    OP
    Shivering
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    Shivering Wolfspider

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    Mar 9, 2018
    4:37 AM
    Shivering
    I/L Arch Mage
    183
    If you have paladin and bucc balancing ideas you are free to make a thread about it. I don’t see why they can’t be implemented at the same time. The ideology of this class is bad so I want you to be bad too doesn’t really make sense to me.

    As far as SI goes, it does very little to help mages farm better as you can see from the statements in the original post. The only two maps where SI usually has a minimal beneficial impact to farming (petris and skeles) just got a heavy nerf in this patch with inability to loot mesos without being an attacker. I think this is actually a pretty reasonable suggestion when you consider balance.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  4. Magen
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    Magen Selkie Jr.

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    Mar 31, 2020
    Male
    1:37 PM
    bishopmage
    Cleric
    55
    active
    Well this is the most significant point about why Si should work on mages.
    While making bliz/meteor/gene faster is the odd impact, making mages able to boss would be a fresh thing to our server.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  5. choux
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    choux Orange Mushroom

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    Mar 25, 2020
    4:37 AM
    choux
    I/L Arch Mage
    175
    that slight apq bonus boost tho
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Skuire
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    Skuire Nightshadow

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    Aug 16, 2017
    5:37 AM
    Skucci
    Shadower
    :eek: where'd my first post go?!
    Yes Shivering, let's hand out some sympathy buffs to the slightly-nerfed-but-still-objectively-best classes in the game.

    At this point I feel that, if ML is (understandably) unwilling to go for the jugular and retool mages by eliminating their total reliance on ultimates, then any nerf that dampens the effectiveness of their brand of one-button-hit-everything-on-the-map-all-the-time gameplay is a step in the next-best direction toward a healthier game. Please call me a mage hater, I've got over 10 of them.

    Would reenabling SI on mages be fine if they weren't already the best farming, easiest leveling, least-setup-requiring characters you can play on MapleLegends? Sure! Barring this, any further buffs are utterly unwarranted.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  7. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

    1,782
    1,033
    490
    Oct 22, 2020
    Male
    12:37 PM
    Nightz
    I/L Arch Mage
    200
    Funk & Pasta
    Moderator Post
    Whilst I'm heavily biased as my only high leveled char is at this point an Archmage I think this is a welcome buff for mages that do enjoy bossing using skills such as Chain Lightning without making them OP at it.

    Is this really even the case? I've never played with SI on my mage but I can't see myself getting much more EPH as you're simply timegated by the respawn of the mobs?

    Is this buff really needed? probably not.
    Would it harm the game in anyway? probably not
     
  8. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    Oct 24, 2019
    Male
    7:37 PM
    NotCut3
    Hero
    172
    Active
    Not sure if thats possible, but what if SI doesnt affect ultimates? like +3 and +4 wielding the same speed as +2

    Just a random thought ofc, I don't have a single mage so I can't comment much
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Jaynus
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    Jaynus Timer

    103
    12
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    Mar 19, 2020
    Male
    10:37 PM
    Dralith
    Beginner, Camper, Islander
    58
    At skeles, the rotation with SI is different from w/o SI. More mobs gets killed = more eph.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Oct 22, 2020
    Male
    12:37 PM
    Nightz
    I/L Arch Mage
    200
    Funk & Pasta
    Moderator Post
    Ah that makes sense, I've only ever sold petri leech and doubt it'll improve much. ty for the info!
     

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