Discussion on balance changes to sweeping.

In terms of raw meso, yes, that does appear to be quite a lot. But when framed as a function of time investment, it paints a different picture. Let's say the server was to agree to a maximum meso generation rate of 10m/hr. Sounds okay at first, right? Now reference that rate in comparison to the cost of big-ticket items. Does ~17 hours (!) of farming per WS seem like a reasonable proposition to you? Maybe others have that kind of time to invest, but I think that standard is a bit absurd. I suppose we could always meet in the middle at 20m.

 

My comment is probably way off the mark of the main topic of this thread, as my issue is more with the cluttering and bugging of pets. I would prefer if I am unable to loot the mesos that I cannot see them (similar to quest items) because they legit cover my entire screen and I can't find equip drops and my pet is lost in the sauce.

 

why not nerf ultimates?
any mobs killed buy ultimatrs receives -50% meso & drop rate

 

This isnt fair to non-sweaty mages. Imagine farming 4 hrs at cwk for badges to get a subani ankh

 

It's difficult—we're essentially just speculating at the moment. Discussions that exist solely in the realm of subjectivity aren't going to get us anywhere. What we need are data of some kind. I think jesscapades basket suggestion would be a great start.

 

This seems like a better fix than only allowing the killer to loot mesos. What allows these degenerate 2-channel $40m/hr strategies to exist is the fact that a lvl 100+ hermit or nl with hp pumped up can just flash jump between casts, covering abnormally large distances while the pet loots every last drop. It's physically impossible for a farmer to manually loot every drop AND farm two maps simultaneously so this would basically end multichannel farming, the biggest reason for the sudden influx of raw mesos into the economy.

 

wrong. 2hit skeles set the price ceiling for 5-6 HAHAHA

 

they can use bigbang to get same meso per hour as warriors heroes

 

Speaking for myself and not a representation of all staff members

Although this is a popular conception I would like to address this (even tho I am not a member of balance team), I would like to add that although the "quad mage ulu 1" strategy was definitely the most "public" version of this strategy, it was not the only map where this strategy was utilized. There were many other mages who appeared to begin utilizing these strategies in many lesser known maps in various ways that were much more incognito and lowkey about it and in other various ways too. I think nerfing maps would just result in a whack-a-mole strategy where the strategy would just move onto a different map after we nerfed another one.

Seeing so many mages pop up on so many different maps really drove home that this wasn't really an issue about "lowering spawn" or "editing the map". One of the most efficient multi-mage farmers I saw used this strategy in a map with relatively low spawn (~12 mobs) and still managed to get millions and millions of mesos an hour due to their rotation. So I just wanted to add that yes although nerfing one map would help with nerfing ulu1 specifically it wouldn't really change anything in the long run because there are just many more maps that this strategy can be efficiently utilized on.

 

Ohh I see but isnt that the fun part of the game tho? Finding different ways to earn mesos? I mean farming is definitely not and easy task I mean slaving away hours on map is tiring that’s why not everyone is doing it. But by disabling this function its quite unfair for the people to actually spend a lot of time farming. I mean everyone can do this in the first place right they just choose not to because they can’t stand farming and I think sweeping is part of the game itself. Thats why as an NL I wasnt salty on the fact that they fixed the Shadow Stars cause I know thats how the game should be played in the first place. Just a thought..

 

I 100% agree with this - it's super annoying to figure out which mesos belong to which character, not to mention your pets start to get distracted. I personally don't hate the sweeper change, but this particular mechanic has caused me a lot of annoyance.

I still think it's an awkward, "custom-feeling" mechanic and I don't know why something more straightforward (reduce meso rate on mage ults, for example) wasn't done if the issue was the disparity between mage-based players and solo players that rely on their attacker to farm.

My opinion is that this sort of phenomenon (excessive farming) is better approached from the view "why are players doing this?" rather than "how can we stop players from doing this". I think a nerf on making something harder without tackling the core issue of why it's happening simply encourages (as you have experienced) players circumventing your rules. Farming, due to its repetitive nature, lends itself to obscene levels of optimization compared to other routes of progressing through the game.

It's not hard to see that nearly everything of value (EXP, mesos, Gachapon-related items, scroll drops) originate from killing mobs. This was the case in OG Maplestory, and this is (to reasons unknown to me) exacerbated in Legends by the custom feature that allows Gachapon (the source of the server's most valuable items) to drop from mobs. If your average Joe had better options of getting items of value (bosses, quests, badges, etc.) without needing to go spam Brandish on some Skeles in a world where 15 mages are nuking the entire universe, then the original problem (general inflation) wouldn't be such a problem anymore as the only people that would be getting their livelihoods hurt would be the very people creating the excess in mesos.

 

To be fair, this has pretty much been the trend of almost all balance patches for the past 2 years. Players innovate new strategy / meta -> balance patch nerfs it, and the cycle repeats. At this point I think it is kind of inevitable, and as much as players hate these nerfs, sometimes they need to be done for the health of the server in the long run.

 

In my opinion, allowing manual looting would be a good middle ground to solving multi-map farming. At some point it would become unmanageable.

 

Disable multiclienting?

 

I think a limit of 3 clients at once is more reasonable, as it would give people the ability to:
- self leech with 1-2 mules,
- bring in 2 additional signs for CWK (which is often needed) & fill in specific needed slots for other PQs (LPQ, MPQ, OPQ etc)
- have an account in FM for casual chat, with 1 being actively played elsewhere

As well as stopping:
- the 3-4 mage + MU + sweeper mules strat, &
- 1 person from camping all 8 timers/channels of a boss map at once

I understand a complete ban on multi-clienting has been tried in the past & since reverted, but a slight tweak to that idea could be tried out.

 

1. Still better than not being able to loot any mesos at all? It's going to be difficult to do for sure, I don't doubt that, but it gives leechers the option.
2. Yes, but it will likely limit multi-mage farming to 1 map. I'd imagine it'd be farely difficult to farm 2 maps of ulu1 and sweep all at the same time.

I guess the whole idea is to increase the difficulty of sweeping, but not eliminating entirely. By automating less, it'd be more difficult to scale up.

 

Then it'll become pay2win. I'll get 5 small and cheap laptops, hook them up to monitors and engage in toe gameplay.