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Discussion on balance changes to sweeping.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Dimez, Jun 17, 2021.

  1. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    3:51 PM
    Nightz
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    Moderator Post
    You should fill up your party with mules to decrease the mesos that go to the buyers so you lose out on max 2m if raw meso is 6m hourly
    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Soniii
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    Soniii Mixed Golem

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    Sweeping is broken
     
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  3. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    -ovv
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    Mage sweeper is the new meta.
     
  4. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    NoraONE
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    LUK MAGES MAKING A RETURN??? High avoid sweeping lets gooo
     
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  5. Kaylex
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    Kaylex Brown Teddy

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    #NotAllMages MapleF4
     
  6. whatdatoast
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    whatdatoast Windraider

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    I used 4 laptops last year for puff daddy...It was not fun at all.
     
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  7. Chrisss
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    Chrisss Horny Mushroom

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    ChrisBS
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    Do you really want to replicate what another server has achieved? if you haven't noticed, it went extremely downhill for them.

    I think this question is rather too late to ask since multi-clienting has already taken effect.
     
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  8. Motto
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    Motto Skelegon

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    I laugh, yet I cry to think people are positively thinking of this.

    MAPS SHOULD NEVER BE NERFED BECAUSE A CLASS ABUSES IT

    THE PROBLEM IS THE CLASS.

    If you nerf Ulu1... fine, I'll just move to viks, nerf them I'll move to multi channel ulu2, nerf that I'll start multi channel farming CDs.
    What next? Lets just nerf every fucking map everyone uses just because mages are making 25~50% more meso/hr on the m

    This is a good suggestion.

    Thank you for being based.

    Personally the problem should be fixed by making active role killing mobs able of looting each others meso bags.
    Not just a "oh you killed 1 mob you can now look for X minutes" but more of a "you've been killing for 5 minutes straight, here get your ability to loot meso from others for X minutes as a bonus".
    This makes the usability of Shad/NL sweepers still uncapable or reduce mage casting to allow the sweeper to kill mobs for 5 minutes. (or heck there might be maps you can just remove one mage and have a sweeper kill mobs constantly on rotation but we're diverging too hard here)

    This would be lovely but you'll most likely be hit by enormous toxic backlash from the sweat-induced community telling "but I had a party of 5 mules ready at all times to get all buffs while grinding".
    And will for sure introduce Pay2Play back again with Laptop hoarding andys playing on 2 to X laptops depending on how many hands and feet they have.

    As said in reply below :

    Based Sonii answer.
     
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  9. aussietinask
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    aussietinask Horny Mushroom Retired Staff

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    Disclaimer: this is not talking as balance team member, but someone who took high school economics

    Less mesos entering the game is not going to have an immediate effect.

    if the USA didn’t print 50 trillion or whatnot for financial stimulus, would the economy be different as compared to if they printed half the amount?

    Anyone assuming item prices will stay stable at current prices isnt taking into the effect of essentially crippling the ability to print money.

    anyone saying 5-6 leech is the only place to take money is not taking into consideration that people have less money to spend.

    Leech, ws and cs prices are not going to change within a week of decreasing meso generation.

    Maybe ML markets arent robust enough to properly adapt to a decrease in mesos in game for these prices to perfectly match the expected mathenatical effect of the percentage decrease of mesos entering the game. However, prices are largely determined on purchasing power of people, and if people have less money, there’s just gonna be less people willing and able to pay 10m/h for leech. Even the ones who can are spending a bigger percentage of their wealth.

    a more important question that no one is asking is how effective are meso sinks in the game. Only when the current mesos in circulation start to fade out from meso sinks can the effect of the decreased meso generation be seen.

    not a single post in here making assumptions or predictions has effectively considered the economics of the change. Anyone claiming to understand the effects of the change already are talking out of their ass, because it’s impossible to know until meso sinks normalize the situation.

    also, 7 hours for a white scroll is… kekw
     
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  10. MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    This is the kind of philosophy I’d like to see more in the future. Personally I think pets are incredibly overpowered in general and allow a lot of the degenerate stuff we see in game. They automatically loot, move to the loot, and heal you (most of the time) with no downside because nx is free and we can multi vote so there’s not even the downside of missing resets on your attacker. It allows you to sweep easily, mule characters in bosses easily, and not worry about characters dying while multi farming. I think manual looting is a good middle ground where sweeping will be harder but not impossible and more intuitive than not being able to loot party member meso drops like we have now.
     
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  11. HollyCrap
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    HollyCrap Capt. Latanica

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    Just randomly throwing my opinion on this, but the meso looting thing is really annoying for party play. The map gets super polluted real quick! (I'm a shadower so PP helps to pollute by a lot)
     
    • Agree Agree x 9
  12. JDPJHC
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    JDPJHC Mixed Golem

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    Yeah, thank god you put that disclaimer.
     
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  13. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    They are required/suggested to do that because sometimes people take regular posts as official staff posts.
     
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  14. jesscapades
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    jesscapades Pac Pinky

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    that makes sense, i think he was more so highlighting the part "someone who took high school economics"
     
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  15. JDPJHC
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    JDPJHC Mixed Golem

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    LOL how is anyone meant to take that comment seriously after that disclaimer
     
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  16. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    To say no assumptions have been made regarding the economics of the change - in a thread entirely about the balance changes and its impacts on the economy - seems nothing short of condescending.
     
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  17. JDPJHC
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    JDPJHC Mixed Golem

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    And then they get surprised when we react with toxicity [​IMG]
     
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  18. PandaOnPanda
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    PandaOnPanda Timer

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    I agree with this post but I just wanted to comment on the fact that these balance changes that keep getting made always seem to affect other aspects of the game, unintentional or not. I get that sometimes balance is a necessity, but you seem to continually use a sledgehammer when you should be using a screwdriver. Make sure you consider how each aspect of the game will be affected before you decide on a balance path. These changes can have a domino effect. (see: the death of paladins to get rid of HH mules). Posting theoretical charts and explanations in threads are all well and good, but I hope that when you're testing these balance changes, you actually create a character to test it out in your test server and see how those changes feel/affect QOL, eph, dpm, and mesos gained in every bossing/grinding scenario you can think of, and not just testing that the code works.
     
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  19. aussietinask
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    aussietinask Horny Mushroom Retired Staff

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    You're absolutely right in that I was being condescending, because everyone is jumping to conclusions for short term effects, looking at prices of WS/CS today, assuming leech prices today, whereas the change was evidently aimed towards the long term.

    I had zero input in this decision. I don't sell leech, I don't boss, and if I needed money in the past, I would leech 3 friends for free at petris, and sweep on my shad. This nerf hits my main source of income. And yet, somehow, I've managed to see in the long term and not complain about it.

    So if you can't see that there are valid economic points made after a condescending disclaimer, which was designed to be condescending because it was in response to frustratingly short-sighted and self serving posts, then that's fine with me
     
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  20. Cerulean
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    Cerulean Brown Teddy

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    This would be a lot more funny if you weren't an actual balance team member
     
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