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Discussion on balance changes to sweeping.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Dimez, Jun 17, 2021.

  1. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    If this guy says 62.
     
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  2. whatdatoast
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    whatdatoast Windraider

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    he's embarrassed to say 69.
     
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  3. Mirrors
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    Mirrors Zakum Retired Staff

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    So just so we're on the same page: ...your ideal event is one where people feel forced to farm 24/7 at low level maps to get unlimited amounts of APR?
     
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  4. Precel
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    Precel Zakum Retired Staff

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    I'm kind of offended that you think YOU should be the standard to find an appropriate balance. It's an absurd argument and it contributed nothing but undermining your credibility.

    I'd consider this rhetoric more reasonable and I think you should've continued with this one instead. I personally would forego 24/7 bit. User count fluctuates a lot in this server so it's unrealistic to expect all maps to be full for an extended amount of time. Plus, that just sounds like a bad user experience.
     
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  5. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Let's be honest, it's never really enough for people.

    I much rather see different ways of generating cash implemented, although it's not like I have a proper idea ready.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  6. porl
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    porl Mixed Golem

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    No one is forced, its a completely voluntary choice. You want apr you farm them if not then you don't. How are people forced when it's voluntary?

    You know what you're right I should have worded it as "what rate I believe is appropriate". I edited it
     
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  7. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    Because an event with limitless potential to get APR's is going to make people feel like they're missing out by not playing 9 hours a day.
     
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  8. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    9 hours, what are you? Some kind of casual?
     
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  9. Mirrors
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    Mirrors Zakum Retired Staff

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    So... It seems like the thread has kind of derailed from discussing meso sweeping changes to overall event / APR farming currency changes. Moving forward, let's try to stay on topic for the sake of OP, and maybe those who want to discuss APR farming rates during events can create their own suggestions thread? ^^ Of course we will also have a Anni 2021 specific feedback thread as well when the event ends if you guys want to wait until then too.
     
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  10. Pepper
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    Pepper Wolfspider

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    As far as the sweeper issue goes, if staff are planning something further with this change I think it would be beneficial to maybe discuss this with the player base who are already irritated by the change. Maybe if we understood your goal and where you are taking it we would be more on board.
     
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  11. Jafel
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    Jafel Capt. Latanica

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    yes cuz the goal is so hard to understand.

    Less mesos looted is less mesos appear from *POOF* nowhere.

    The question is more, how did you balance this idea compared to other ideas, and did you refine and polish this original idea or not? Because to me a lot of the issues seem very obvious. (Yes, blah blah blah). I'm not against the change, I just think it's implemented amateurishly. I like the change, but it could have used more thought to keep high QOL for regular players.

    The overall idea with the exchange now as well is that less mesos is generated (because people loot less overall) and more mesos is exchanged between players (exchange WS). So solving (somewhat) a supply problem and slowly (very slowly, long term after event!) lowering the financial means of the demand side, thus controlling inflation in the long term.
     
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  12. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    another idea against sweepers:
    only mage ultimates generates pt-unfriendly mesos (mesos that only mages can loot themselves)

    other form of meso generating (big bamg etc) will stay lootable by others.

    personally i still think direct 30-50% meso drop rate nerf on ultimate is still a better solution, but mehh, something new to think about instead.

    tldr, only mage ultimates is causing issues, so we should direcrly nerf their meso generation capability while retaining EPH capability.

    (inb4 dragon roar + cleric mules starts popping up in ulu1 due to multiple ultimate nerfs)
     
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  13. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    My main gripe against the sweeper change is that it makes normal multimage farming strategies more clunky - but not less effective. I'd gladly take the meso cut with nerfs to drop rate if I could have my smooth looting rotation back.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
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  14. porl
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    porl Mixed Golem

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    You shouldn't be able to loot anything from outside your party while you aren't map owner. Being able to leech and sweep at the same time is too much money.

    People shouldn't feel compelled to sweep 9 hours a day or feel like they have missed out on meso
     
  15. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    That's hilarious, coming from you.
     
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  16. NOCAP
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    NOCAP Mano

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    I believe he is being sarcastic and mocking the decision to implement a cap to points for this event in order to make it so players do not feel like they have missed out.

    I think for sweeping changes I just dislike the notion that changes were made as a preventative measure to prevent the high amount of meso circulation. I'm more curious how this was pinpointed as the issue? The issue to me seems to be the player count above level 160+ is just way too high compared to the rate at which WS/CS is being given from gach, which is sort of the opposite problem we had at the start of COVID where a bunch of new players joined and the supply of WS/CS was too high. I don't have access to the data that staff does, but I just hope this was considered.
     
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  17. JDPJHC
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    JDPJHC Mixed Golem

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    The goal of these sweeper changes is CLEAR as I've said before. They just want to appeal to the casual player base and make them feel better. What the staff has failed to realize is that these changes to appeal to this player base has actually fucked over everyone and made the game feel buggy.
     
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  18. ma3ohma3
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    ma3ohma3 Chronos

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    u need the casual player base yo. if not who else gonna buy your failed scrolled eqs? :)
     
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  19. jesscapades
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    jesscapades Pac Pinky

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    My greatest fear is that this thread will turn into last year's multiclient thread, where we're all just circle jerking only to spend 3 months dealing with a bad change. If this change gets reverted, I think everyone would very greatly appreciate an immediate patch.
     
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  20. Pepper
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    Pepper Wolfspider

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    I agree. At this point it does feel that our concern for the bad QoL is being mostly ignored by staff. We have been given hints that we haven't seen "the bigger picture" or the additional changes to come. I implore you then to please enlighten us on what your goals are for the server and how you are expecting these types of changes to come to a positive change. As it stands right now we have not gotten any reasonable response and are only sitting here voicing our concern for a change that was drastic and ruined the feel of the game for us. Some transparency with the staff would be great. At this point every time I play I have to deal with my pet not being able to loot my drops unless I specifically walk him through them because he's too busy trying to pick up some mesos from someone in my party. I actively avoid maps with multiple people so I don't have to have the mesos everywhere which is also contributing to my game lagging.

    I still am on the belief that an entire server nerf was not the way to go for this and that a slight rebalance is what should have actually occurred. Increase mesos gain in bossing and quests.

    Maybe have a limit to how many mesos can be in the ground at a time which will lower overall mesos gained if you clear a whole map before a looting cycle. This doesn't punish those who are actively looting while playing or the entire server as a whole.

    Lower mesos gain from mobs that are killed with a mage ult. This was already suggested and can help lower huge mesos gain by a small amount without punishing the server as a whole. This doesn't seem super hard to implement since you can already do this with meso up.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7

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