White scroll

how would making them expire, which is basically reducing the supply constantly, meet the current demand when it is greater than what's available? meeting the current demand would mean reducing it or increasing the supply. what I am saying is there aren't enough ws being produced each day to satisfy the market's daily demands

 

Right, and the assumption made when it was proposed to make them expire is that the supply produced daily does in fact meet demand, if it weren't for people hording them as a store of wealth instead of either using them or putting them onto the market.

 

One thing to note is that you can't put any expirable items in your FM store.

So if WS were to expire, have fun seeing numerous smega's of S> or B> WS. Not like we have enough smega spam as it already is.

 

Say there's 50 WS in market. 2 people want to start working on end game equip but 3rd person wants to hoard. 3rd person buys 25 ws to hoard. Now there is less market.

Time limit added, 3rd person no longer wants to hoard. There is more market.

 

If expiry dates were added to WS then (if needed) the obtainment rates can be adjusted accordingly, it's not like the current WS rates have to stay the way they are forever. Gachapon rates have been changed many times in the past & we just got a new way of obtaining WS via Crimsonwood Forest exchange.

 

ah ok I see what you mean

 

so everyone will wait until these scrolls are about to expire, basically holding the seller by the balls and crash the price. doesn't sound like a good idea

 

3rd person buys whatever item he/she wants to buy with WS, and 25WS is back in market. I don't see the problem there.

The difference between people that use WS and collect WS is that the ones that are in collection don't actually disappear.

You'd also need to buy 25 (or whatever number) of WS consistently, every week to keep up the prices.

 

The problem is they aren't. They're holding the WS and waiting for someone to create a perfect equip for them to trade it off to. So in the end the WS are being kept in a vault for a long time and the only exchange is WS for WS (perf item already eating the WS)

 

What's the problem with people trading WS for perf items?

 

This is going to be my last post on the topic because if people don't want to understand they won't.

User buys 50 WS at 130m. Hoards them until now where they are getting around 190m. Probably continues to buy more. The price goes up because there are less in the market. People buy WS to make a perfect weapon and those WS will most likely be worth more than the weapon is at the end. Meanwhile while this user is hoarding waiting for that, the price continues to go up. They continue to take from the market. It will continue to go up. So in the end someone who made a perfect weapon with like 70 WS is only going to get 40 to 50 WS because of price increase. The user keeps hoarding them. Less are circulating back into the market.

 

The biggest irony with your scenario is that had this user chosen to scroll his own weapon instead of buying a used one, there would literally be 70 less WS in circulation (whereas this guy would be releasing saved WS back into the market with this purchase). not to mention nobody should need to spend 70WS on any gear unless you're making a 50int robe/perf shield

Perf weapons are worth less than their expected costs due to a variety of reasons, but the meso price of WS is not one of them.

Something that's frustrating with some of the issues raised in this thread is that these solutions are literally self-defeating in the sense they worsen the problem that are claiming to be solved.

 

Imagine trying to buy a perf weapon/high attack glove or cape/any big end game item without WS. Need some way to store mesos when you run up against the cap

Edit: If this change happened could also think about implementing meso tokens to store large amounts of mesos in like another private server i won't name

 

I feel like people aren't getting the extent of the hoarding issue. Go owl any scroll worth 3m+, and look at the number of people with 50+. The legends market is incredibly fragile, especially with gach-exclusive scrolls. I've sometimes spent weeks owling the same scroll (gfa30/70, sfma 30/70), and it's usually stabile, until 1 person (presumably) goes and buys out everything, and suddenly the scroll is worth 1.5x and takes a month to 'recover'.

The same happens for WS, it's just harder for people to see. As with the other market-economics thread we had last week, it'd be nice for staff to know the WS being produced / used each week to see how much of this is actually going on.

Giving WS an expiry will have different short term and long term effects. I suspect if implemented, all previous WS will expire on the same date. This will of course push WS prices lower near expiry. We can look back at the great stew purge last year as an example; price remained quite stable until a month out, and then suddenly people were trying to offload hundreds.

What will happen after this mass-expiry? I'd imagine if the expiry is short (< 1month), people will no longer hoard them, so the demand will be less and the price will drop.

I don't think WS expiry is healthy for the server though. There could be a lot of old players that come back and see all their wealth gone.

So how will people purchase expensive items without WS. Probably punt the problem down to the next most expensive scroll (CS, gfa30, oa/earring int30, etc). Ideally staff just creates a 1b coin or something, and taxes you upon purchase/use.

 

A lot of issues you bring up can be solved by adding expiry dates to only new WS.

My problem with expiry dates is that I feel that it will make the WS market even more sensitive than it is right now.

If there are a lot of people finishing weapons at that particular time, then you might see the price spike significantly because there's literally 1-2 WS left on sale (with none on storage to help stabilize prices).

On the other hand, are there aren't a lot of people finishing weapons, you might see the price drop significantly because sellers absolutely have to sell before their scrolls expire.

Finally, I don't understand why hoarders would mass-buy WS at unreasonable prices if they have all the time in the world to buy them. I don't know any of these hoarders personally so I can't speak on it with any sort of certainty; however, I would think it would be people that actually need to use the scrolls that are willing to buy WS at inflated prices.

 

If I'm about to hit the 2.1bn meso cap what am I supposed to do then? Buy some Subani Ankh's?

 

I'm not saying people don't buy WS as a means of storage/currency. I'm saying that those people aren't so desperate to buy WS to cause abnormal spikes in WS prices.

I'm sure as hell not buying WS for 200m until prices either go down or it settles as the new norm.

 

I don't believe hoarding contributes to long-term pricing of WS. Hoarded WS are still going to be sold, used, or traded at one point or the other.

I acknowledge that the double-use of WS as currency (particularly for big-ticket trades) can make the scroll more expensive. However, there's no convenient, reliable alternative for these players.

If the problem is with people buying WS today in hopes that WS will be more valuable later (which is a fair assessment), then the WS hoarded today will be sold or used later down the line when WS is in more demand (making WS cheaper than what it would've otherwise been). I don't find this this to be a problem.

WS hoarding is a symptom of a problem (increasing demand for WS), not the problem itself.

 

I, for one, have held onto the single White Scroll I've ever received from Gachapon since 2017.

I have not pulled any new White Scrolls since.