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Staff should stop enforcing roll gambling

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Selquin, Jul 1, 2021.

Banish the rollers to anarchy?

  1. Yay

    51 vote(s)
    73.9%
  2. Nay

    18 vote(s)
    26.1%
  1. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    Roll gambling is an extremely degenerate part of the game that has spawned tons of controversies over the years. There have been formerly legitimate players who in a moment of anger rolled more than they should have, lost their entire bank many times over, and either quit or got banned for rolls camming. There have been many roll scamming disputes where its not 100% clear which party is correct leading to more work for staff to investigate and often controversial bans. Roll gambling has a lot of obviously negative effects on the server and it doesn't seem to add anything positive, at least for the majority of players.

    From what I understand reading staff responses over the years, it seems like staff even roughly agree with me on the topic of roll gambling. So then why is it that roll gambling is still popular in the game? One answer might be that it is difficult to get rid of roll gambling. It would certainly be practically impossible to police people rolling in game, you can't exactly have GMs dress up like secret police monitoring the FMs 24/7. However there is an inverse solution that is extremely simple, simply not handing out bans for roll scamming. The fact that you can get banned for roll scamming gives legitimacy to the roll gambling. In some sense staff is implicitly encouraging roll gambling by banning roll scammers.

    If staff were to stop enforcing roll gambling rules, it would solve several problems.
    1. We don't need to hand out controversial bans in situations where it is unclear which party is in the right
    2. Staff can save a good chunk of time by not having to deal with roll scamming reports
    3. Roll gambling will lose a lot of legitimacy knowing that there is nothing stopping the opposing party from scamming you and getting off free

    Since I joined the server I have always thought it was strange that roll scamming was a sport legitimized by the staff. It makes no sense to keep roll gambling as a popular activity in ML, I think its about time this policy is changed.
     
    • Agree x 34
    • Friendly x 4
    • Like x 3
    • Great Work x 1
    • Useful x 1
    • Creative x 1
  2. JDPJHC
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    JDPJHC Mixed Golem

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    Rolling has opened the door for so many scams and gives a way for many RWTers to "legitimize" their purchases.

    Also, fuck the players that get their gear without working for it :p

    I do think the rolling feature is cool for deciding on who gets card/boss drops.
     
    • Agree Agree x 12
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  3. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    I'm all for making rules simpler and allowing staff to have more time to focus on things that actually matter.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Like Like x 2
    • Creative Creative x 1
  4. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    If this goes through then LF>10 quadrillion meso roll
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 4
  5. OP
    OP
    Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    If this goes through I will personally run around fm on 17 mules roll scamming people 24/7 until the duel aren-, I mean the FM, is clean of roll gamblers.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Great Work Great Work x 4
    • Useful Useful x 1
  6. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    Funny haha
     
    • Creative Creative x 2
  7. ngrman
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    ngrman Stone Golem

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    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. Mott
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    Mott Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Wouldn't this lead to more people publicly accusing each other of roll scamming and those people getting banned while the roll scammers get away?

    In our current situation
    1. roll takes place (players are recording - there's no room for controversy if everything is recorded)
    2. someone scams
    3. the person who got scammed files a report with the video and the scammer is account banned

    In this new proposed solution
    1. roll takes place (evidence doesnt matter anymore)
    2. someone scams
    3. the other person cannot smega/publicly tell others that that user is a scammer, so the scammer gets away

    In this new proposed solution, scamming is 100% safe and the only way to win, essentially meaning no rolls will be won/lost since everyone scams. In this case, why not just remove rolling entirely?
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Great Work Great Work x 2
  9. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Then perhaps they shouldn't have roll gambled in the first place? Roll functionality is great for determining who gets drops like a monster card. However, in ML roll functionality is abused to create a gambling meta.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. Skuire
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    Skuire Nightshadow

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    No memes, I'm 100% on board with this course of action. Let the pepegas run their own underground gambling ring and eventually devour themselves. The drama and memes will be legendary. The staff ticket volume previously dedicated to inane rolling drama will not be missed.

    +1 LET'S DO IT! :yay:
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. Mott
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    Mott Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    My bad I should've been more specific. I meant removing rolling outside of PQ's essentially removing gambling
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. Cerulean
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    Cerulean Brown Teddy

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    I think the point is that (1), "roll taking place", just stops happening altogether. Nobody serious about the game would willingly roll knowing there's no enforcement. This effectively removes gambling from the game without having to explicitly prohibit it, and rolling functionality can be left intact for PQs/boss cards/etc.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Pepper
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    Pepper Wolfspider

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    My concern is people convincing new or gullible users to do it and then it ending negatively for them and no one having their back which makes it look like a bad environment. I don't really roll gamble cause I don't like to lose but it is entertaining to some people and I don't think allowing some forms of scam and not others should be allowed. It can be a slippery slope and lead to worse issues with harassment instead of a recording of a scam.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. JDPJHC
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    JDPJHC Mixed Golem

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    I think the idea of anarchy is pretty funny, but would it be hard to code it so that you can only roll in boss maps/PQs? I think this is the only way to realistically keep rolling for boss drops.
    Clueless people will still get scammed and have a shitty time, it wouldnt really be fair to them for the GMs to not enforce against scamming. Limiting it to PQ and bossmaps is probably the move
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    The idea is that people will get scammed until they learn that rolling with strangers is not a good idea.
    +1 for self-regulating anti-policies.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. Precel
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    Precel Zakum Retired Staff

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    I feel like the proposed solution should have been to ban roll gambling altogether for the provided reasons. Why let it happen if it's that negative and anarchy just allows scams to happen (which is still bannable under ToS so it doesn't change anything)?
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  17. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    It's the normalization of rolling/gambling that is causing current scams to exist and is creating much more work for moderators to have to oversee. If rolling/gambling wasn't protected, it would be entirely governed by the players themselves. In this system, the player would assume 100% risk and responsibility, which would be factored into their decision of gambling altogether.

    Gambling on its own is not necessarily a bad thing that needs to be removed. However, players should understand that there is an inherent risk to participating in such risky ventures.

    As for the ToS part - I'd probably add a clause in there to distinguish general scamming vs. roll/gambling-related scamming.
     
  18. Pepper
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    Pepper Wolfspider

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    But staff would still have to handle the public accusals, harrassment reports, and people who are upset and report it anyways. I can already see angry users showing up to #support in discord to yell that the staff are [insert bad things here] for not helping or banning people who are clearly bad for the server.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    *looks in the air* I am already very aware how a server/community behaves when scamming is not a bannable offence, regardless of which feature or addition it's about. When scamming is not enforced, people *will* scam, which then puts the community with drama and unofficial "blocklists" of "known scammers", which creates a witch-hunting vibe with a lot of negativity.

    It's fortunate that for some things suggested here I already know the answer if it's a good idea or not, simply because of another server already working that way. Removing roll scamming to be not bannable is not a good idea. The only thing that could be done is to remove the rolling completely, which is a new suggestion by itself.

    Removing just the rule is a very hard no.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  20. s0mething
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    s0mething Capt. Latanica

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    "Note that video evidence is required for roll scam reports, or the case will not be reviewed."

    Can't quote that for some reason, but it's in https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/maplelegends-terms-conditions.2001/

    Wouldn't that address all of the concerns you've mentioned? Similar to other aspects of the game (e.g. buying leech or scrolling items) players should do so at their own risk.

    Edit: Would it be possible to add "Note that video evidence is required for roll scam reports, or the case will not be reviewed" as a maple tip for the time being? This will serve as a friendly reminder for those still seeking to roll against strangers.
     

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