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Important New System for White Scrolls (Feedback Thread)

Discussion in 'MapleLegends Announcements' started by Nise, Jul 6, 2021.

How do you feel about the Prestigious Coin system?

Poll closed Jul 14, 2021.
  1. Strongly support

    190 vote(s)
    34.4%
  2. Slightly support

    130 vote(s)
    23.6%
  3. Neutral

    90 vote(s)
    16.3%
  4. Slightly oppose

    71 vote(s)
    12.9%
  5. Strongly oppose

    71 vote(s)
    12.9%
  1. Nightz
    Offline

    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

    1,782
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    Oct 22, 2020
    Male
    8:06 AM
    Nightz
    I/L Arch Mage
    200
    Funk & Pasta
    Moderator Post
    Do people even read?

    It's been said multiple time that this is not the bossing change at all, yet 90% of the discussion is focussed on bossing. Sure I agree maybe it would've been better to also give is a general idea what the bossing change is looking like but come on..

    Overall I'm glad that people have been able to voice some proper concerns though. Such as making cs/ws pegged to each other.
     
  2. xiaoyaoz
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    xiaoyaoz Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    7:06 AM
    Mind if I ask for some clarification? (forgive me if I'm too dumb to see through the solution :unsure:)
    To me, it seems like tying ws and cs prices only affects the starting value and it doesn't seems to affect the prices in the long run.
    Since ws and cs can be exchange to and fro for coins, even when 1 day cs price is way higher than ws, the supply of cs will just increase (by converting ws) until the point that the relative price is returned.
    Wouldn't people just exchange ws to coins and create more cs with those coins?

    The valuation of coins sounds like they will be balance/shift around cs and ws, in the extreme case if one day no one ever wants ws anymore, wouldn't people just exchange all the ws to cs and thus putting coin valuation solely based on cs?

    Of course, the direct flaw for my statement would be if there is a limit cap to how many ws/cs can be supplied by the exchange npc, which will just create the situation that you mentioned.
    Or maybe i'm overestimating this fluidity between ws/cs to and fro for coins? :(
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Pepper
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    Pepper Wolfspider

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    3:06 AM
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    The point is that if they are connected with the same currency then you are always paying for the more expensive of the 2.

    Whichever is being the main driving factor of cost, the coins will be priced based on that. You will over pay for the other. It won't allow for proper fluctuations of the market.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. RegalStar
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    RegalStar Nightshadow

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    3:06 AM
    DMsRebirth
    I don't think this is a problem in a system where WS and CS can be destroyed and converted into each other, though? Especially since they will not be tradable individually, they would not really have any kind of "worth" in terms of currency so much as more of a function of their demand and supply. Basically, if there happens to be a sudden surplus of demand for CS and supply for WS, people would just liquidate their extra WS and create extra CS to reach equilibrium again. Of course, the "fee" required for this conversion can affect how smooth this process will be depending on what it is and how much it is.

    That being said, I'm much more conerned with tying RoTs to coins (and by extension WS/CS). WS and CS are very high utility items that will get used a lot, while RoTs are normally used to create timeless weapons which are very low utility (only very few people in the server are interested in them due to their untradable nature and massive amount of RNG regarding creation). Tying them together essentially prevent RoT from dropping beyond a certain floor in value, which means at some point its value will detach massively from the actual weapons (which are still available as drops from PB), so at that point the crafting of timeless weapons will be essentially a worthless feature due to the weapon products being worth much less than the RoT materials to make them. If this system goes through and gets attached to bosses, I think the coins should just drop directly instead of needing to be converted from any existing drops.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Informative Informative x 3
  5. xiaoyaoz
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    xiaoyaoz Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    7:06 AM
    Someone told me that point before, but I don't see how this is the case since you wouldn't know which is more expensive (value by the market) than the other. Or do you know? o.o
    This might be naive, but wouldn't people trade in terms of how much the coin prices are?
    The shift between value of cs/ws just goes behind the scene and will get balance by the supply which is controllable by the coin exchange instead of gach RNG now.
    LF> high school economics 101 lesson, someone tell me what's wrong :confused:
     
  6. BananaPie
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    BananaPie Selkie Jr.

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    7:06 AM
    When the two are pegged, the value of the individual coin is determined by the value of the most expensive good it can be traded for - whether it's WS or CS I'll leave that for you to decide. Which means the less expensive good will hold no value as its determined solely by the more expensive good.

    So hypothetically speaking if demand for WS rises, said demand will translate to the demand for the coin which in turn (supply held constant) would increase the value of said coin. Now assuming a world where this coin only exchanges for WS, an increase in value of the coin would correspond to an increase in the value of WS (which is in line with what you'd expect given demand for WS has increased).

    In this instance, since CS and WS are pegged at a fixed exchange rate (say 1:1.5), the value of CS will also increase as a result. Hence CS in itself holds no value and its very value is determined by the demand of the more lucrative other good (ws) which the coin can exchange for.

    The opposite also stands true. if someone decides to go on a chaosing streak and buys a load of coins, that will also translate to a potential implication on ws prices.

    Whether this is a good or bad thing is up for you to decide. However, I strongly believe there is no good reason for why the demand of cs/ws should have any direct implication to the value of the other good. Indirect, perhaps, but a strictly direct relationship via a peg makes absolutely no sense to me.

    If you want the one of the most commonly cited examples of a peg in real life, you look at the USD:HKD exchange rate. The HKD itself holds no value and its current value in the FX market is solely determined by the 1:c.7.8 peg between the two.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. Pepper
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    Pepper Wolfspider

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    It just means they will never be individual. If WS is what is driving the price up and you want to buy 1 CS, you have to pay for a WS essentially. Or vice versa. It can lead to prices going higher.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. xiaoyaoz
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    xiaoyaoz Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    7:06 AM
    Oh, I see what you mean now, in a sense, the best case scenario is when the demand/supply is at the pegged rate? o.o
    I'm just thinking this in term of purple cape vs ws instead since purple cape sux and if they got tied at a certain rate, guess it really sucks if you wanna buy the purple cape, sounds like it just puts a floor value for the lower valued item.
    In a way, by creating the lower valued item (sux for you), you can push the coin prices higher (since you sinked the coins)?
    Thanks for da explanation y'all :)
     
  9. yurain
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    yurain Windraider

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    3:06 PM
    YUrain
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    Honestly, the "message" by the GM to the community has caused a bigger dent to the pricing of the WS than actual supply increase (event raffling).
    The similiar effect can be seem during the gacha buff a few months back, when people actually want to sell their WS.

    Maybe we can deal with the hoarding first to clean up the system and then revamp it with such a huge implementation.
    Some how gradually an add expiry date to all the existing WS, "seal" all existing WS and make them unusable.
    They will be unsealed at first trade or via a npc to be used, and then slap a 1month expiry date to them.
     
  10. Tirwin
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    Tirwin Slime

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    8:06 AM
    Tirwin
    Bishop
    As im only playing Bishop for me and pretty much being a casual player...
    Not sure if it has been mentioned yet but my concerns..

    -How is a bishop going to earn these coins? loot it ? or is it rewarded for taken part? Or will it be a unique player drop item ?
    -How are you going to stop ppl using mules at bosses to farm coins ?

    I love the idea I can make money from selling these coins... every gain helps.
     
  11. kiln
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    kiln Pink Teddy

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    You’re going to over-pay for one and under-pay for the other. That was the intent and that’s probably what will happen.
     
  12. RegalStar
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    RegalStar Nightshadow

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    Who do you know would sell to people underpaying? If you do know someone like that, introduce them to me because I've got a lot of deals to talk to them about...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. kiln
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    kiln Pink Teddy

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    I don’t think you’re getting what I’m saying. I’m saying “under-pay” and “over-pay” in comparison to what you would be paying without the coin system in place. For example, if CS would have been valued at 160m and WS at 200m, you’re going to be paying 180m for both, not 200m for both.

    Saying the WS price at 200m will dominate is silly because both scrolls are supplied at roughly the same rate.

    To break it down for you: if WS prices go up because there aren’t enough in the market, people will create WS (instead of CS) from coins, bringing the price back down.
     
  14. Palladino
    Online

    Palladino Master Chronos

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    Apr 26, 2020
    8:06 AM
    Paladin
    Funk
    I'm generally in favour of implementing this change as it would give staff additional parameters to tweak in order to help stabilize the economy by inflating/deflating the value of said scrolls. However, I'd like to voice my concerns about one of the mentioned goals of increasing the number of ws/cs available. Especially if the rationale behind it is to simply meet the demands of end game players who "want" more ws/cs. As the results of the poll are coming through it appears a majority of the community would disagree with me on this one, but I worry that making ws/cs too accessible will diminish the feeling of accomplishment once you finally do manage to perfect that weapon, and in turn also take away from the journey that is the game.

    So, please be careful not to make the coins/ws/cs too easy to obtain if you do end up implementing this.

    Great work! <3

    Edit:
    After reading all the comments (some really well-written and thoroughly thought through posts (kudos, guys!)), I'm definitely leaning more towards the naysayers. It's an incredibly engaging and interesting topic that I'm glad you guys brought up, but after some further reflection I've concluded it's 3spooky5me.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  15. Trion
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    Trion Capt. Latanica

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    3:06 AM
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    Would the acceptable way to transfer White scrolls/Chaos scrolls between your characters to just use the coin exchange over and over, or will this be something that is frowned upon? I have no problem making them untradeable, but it won't be against the rules to transfer your acquired WS to another character on another account with the coin system right? (So basically you won't be penalized for getting WS from gacha on a character who doesn't need it)

    But if the NPC exchange isn't going to be a straight 1:1 deal for getting a WS/CS on a character you didn't want it on, that would feel pretty weird considering it is not tradeable under the new rules.

    Just double checking where the lines are.
     
  16. INSAINRUSSIA
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    INSAINRUSSIA Horny Mushroom

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    Alistar
    I/L Arch Mage
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    just a meme.jpg
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  17. KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    KurayamiLove/Nagrom/Amatista
    Buccaneer
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    Halcyon
    tbh I just want a system that resembles the reward points system from MapleStory that rewards bossers with points with a cap (pretty similar to this event) with points to expend on useful stuff such as white scrolls (now they have a different name), protection scrolls, more character slots, more inventory slots, cubes, water of life and so on. I never minded if these points are coins that can be tradable but as a whole, I just want a system that rewards bossing and perhaps make WS more accessible. If this doesn't work the point system from the event with some tweaks could be neat too.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Trion
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    Trion Capt. Latanica

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    That was my point from the very beginning and people were going crazy, but now that things have settled down people are realizing there was merit to it especially when you try to tackle too many problems at once. But like others have said let us see the "bossing changes" first.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Jvcki
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    Jvcki Slime

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    Jvcki
    to give you an example lets say the CS/WS cost in coins are 160/200, and the market price is unofficially around 160/200m for each scroll - that would mean coins would cost 1m each right
    however if the price of WS go up because a few people are buying large amounts to finish weapons, and coins go up to 1.2m each, the price of CS would also be affected making each of them cost 192m even though demand hasn't really changed for them

    i do think this might be a problem but i'm also hopeful that if it is implemented the constant stream of coins coming into the game would make it so it would never fluctuate for more than a few days + in combination of market forces that would bring the price of the coin back down (people liquidating their coins/cs because the price is tethered to ws, and vice versa if the opposite scroll scenario happens)
     
  20. ma3ohma3
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    ma3ohma3 Chronos

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    3:06 PM
    it makes it such that if u boss 200 times and each boss run drops 1 coin per runner, you will get 200 coins and hence a WS, no matter how much WS costs in terms of mesos.
    this effectively decouples the mesos-to-WS/CS market and the coin-to-WS/CS market.
     

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