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Another HP Wash Suggestion

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by lv1crook, Jul 22, 2021.

  1. lv1crook
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    lv1crook Capt. Latanica

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    Let’s be honest. No goals to keep players invested in the game long term? Pretty cringe. That’s why hp wash exists. But being unable to play the game as our lord and savior Cody from Wizet envisioned it? Also pretty cringe.

    Which is why I have no choice but the draw the collective sighs and ire of the entire ML forum and present you with yet another HP washing suggestion.

    I am going to cut to the chase and tell you my suggestion, and give the rationalization afterwards. The idea is that based on your chosen class, a certain amount of base INT will be calculated as your main stat. The objective of this change is to lower the barrier of entry for new players to wash and encourage playing your own character rather than playing leech/mule story.

    HP washing right now is not optional for the squishier attacking classes if you have any hopes of fighting endgame bosses economically or challenging pink bean. This isn’t exactly a bad thing, as it prevents any old mage from sweating hard a couple of months to become rich and finish all the games content. But the consequences are plain to see, many players become discouraged and leave or resort to playing multiple accounts just to play the game at a reasonable pace.

    This change will help alleviate some of the stress of HP washing, by allowing your character to be more playable to level up yourself. Archers, corsairs, and night lords have it especially rough, requiring anywhere from 100-200 points dumped into int just to reach the hp thresholds of pink bean. These classes are powerful bossers, which justifies the NX investment required to wash to that point. However, it doesn’t really justify the fact that they will have to be carried in every PQ they are ever a part of and have their mobbing abilities made even worse than they already are. You will always at least be 20 levels behind your intended power level, and that’s with modest goals. With this change, your power level would be more aligned with the area it was originally intended to be.

    As a result, it will be more appealing to play your own character and work to 160 yourself, without relying on carries or leech. For most classes besides mages and DKs, your mobbing ability will still be subpar. But it would be more realistic to overcome your weaknesses with party play and grit. Right now, trying to level an INT-loaded NL, Corsair, or archer class past the 3rd/4th job divide is so unrewarding that any sane person would resort to multiclienting or extensively relying on others instead of just playing the game. It’s a huge time sink that can only be reasonably resolved by pressing spacebar on a mage. This change would make the more traditional option of grinding yourself and with friends more appealing rather than investing in multiple clients.

    How this change could work
    Imagine we are working with a Corsair. The first 100 points of INT they apply to their character would also give them damage corresponding to 100 points of DEX. The prospective Corsair will likely still have to put in another 50 to 100 points of INT if they want an endgame-playable character in a reasonable amount of time, but they will be able to kill most monsters themselves. With some decent gear, they could even be more than a bodybag in PQs. It won’t be easy when they get to 100, but the 5-10 levels of missing AP will not make nearly as much of a difference as it would otherwise grinding through that point. All in all, it would feel good to be playing an INT-loaded character. For classes who do not need to wash as much, the INT translation would be lessened or not implemented entirely. This would be to discourage over washing.

    Obligatory example is example, the specifics do not matter it’s a forum post not in the game.

    Pros
    • New players will be less intimidated by HP Washing and less likely to restart their character or force themselves to play a mage
    • Encourages you to grind yourself/play your own character to the end
    • Retains the time necessary to reach an endgame-capable HP goal
    • No mages necessary (all my homies hate mages)
    Cons
    • Incentivizes sweaties to make even worse unplayable INT-loaded monstrosities
    • There needs to be an incentive to put the remaining INT back into your main stat afterwards
    • Likely obnoxious to code
    • Mages are still clearly the optimal route
    • Disagrees on forum
    That’s basically all I have to say for now. Unless someone replies “Just dodge lmao” in which case I have another few paragraphs I cut from this post I have put aside specially for you. Thank you for reading this far and I appreciate your feedback!

    EDIT: I thought of a way to make this easier to code and balance than the current way listed above while thinking some more. Instead of there being an upper cap to the amount INT can contribute to your damage, it would just be better to make every 2 INT worth 1 main stat. So 200 INT would be worth 100 DEX for a Corsair in the example above. This change would be universal for all classes because it scales with how much you wash, making it easier to implement. It also solves the main issue of the previous suggestion that there is no incentive to reset your INT back into your main stat.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 4
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  2. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    • Agree Agree x 5
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  3. kiln
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    kiln Pink Teddy

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    I think a huge downside to HP washing that often gets overlooked is just the knowledge barrier to entry.

    You shouldn’t have to look through pages of forum guides and excel spreadsheets to figure out how you want to play your first character.

    Worse still, brand-new players that have never touched end-game bosses have to make a decision about how comfortable they want to be doing these bosses. Are you going to be fine asking for HB and having to pot every hit? I think these are questions that get answered as you approach those levels, but that decision has to be made on day 1 of your new character.

    For these reasons, I think the system should have an option to allow players to wash further down the line.

    As someone that has chosen to wash, I found a lot of this legwork annoying and would have deterred me from joining the server had I not been more familiar with Maplestory.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  4. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    Just dodge lmao
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 4
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  5. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    Implying this system isn't already there? I've started washing multiple characters after lvl 80 and they're just fine.
     
  6. kiln
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    kiln Pink Teddy

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    I’m talking “down the line” as in level 130-160, when you really start to get your feet wet in any kind of bossing.

    In this regard, both the lvl 10 and lvl 80 are going to be equally clueless when it comes to “how much do I really want to wash”.

    I know there are excellent references on this exact topic. However, if you don’t have actual experience bossing, there’s only so much that information can do for you.

    For example, 8.1k HP lets you tank two hits in HT with HB. If you’re a true level 80 player that has never run a major boss in his life, then how are you supposed to know being able to tank two hits is something you’re really going to want?

    What if you die because you haven’t washed? Will these guys know that a Bishop/HB is meta to bring on HT runs? How will they feel about attacking patterns? Will they want to be able to track stuff like timers without worrying about their HP?

    I know that I struggled in finding exactly what I wanted despite having run HT/PB/Zak in different servers. Many of these players end up over-washing because the NX cost to wash to a particular HP becomes significantly higher with less INT.

    I get that a fairly light wash can take you very far in terms of comfort and being able to survive. I respect the intention behind many of these challenges, but I think people sometimes forget that other people don’t know all of the things they know. A veteran might know “washing to x or y is fine”, because they’ve run these bosses before, know the meta, and understand what they want for themselves, but for a newbie, this sort of decision comes way too early - level 10 or level 80.
     
  7. Feeed
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    Feeed Mr. Anchor

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    Not to toot my own horn but I think making base INT part of damage formulas is a more elegant solution than this.

    I agree in principle though. I don't think it's the best solution in the world but range can't be glass cannons as designed if they die to everything in 1 hit, while they as well as bosses have no built-in mechanics to avoid that.
     
  8. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    What if we reverse the concept and have mp gain also increase by luk/dex/str? OnionSmoking
     
  9. OP
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    lv1crook
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    lv1crook Capt. Latanica

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    There would be no incentive to ever stop washing with that idea, unfortunately.
     
  10. OP
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    lv1crook
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    lv1crook Capt. Latanica

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    Am a little too busy to reply to everything right now, but I thought of a better way to implement this that I will add to the bottom of the current suggestion.

    Instead of there being an upper cap to the amount INT can contribute to your damage, it would just be better to make every 2 INT worth 1 main stat. So 200 INT would be worth 100 DEX for a Corsair in my previous example. This change would be universal for all classes because it scales with how much you wash, making it easier to implement. Warriors who wash less will comparatively only gain around 25 or so STR back, which allows easy wash classes to be included but not particularly extra powerful.

    It also solves the main issue of the previous suggestion that there is no incentive to reset your INT back into your main stat. You still lose out on a sizable amount of damage by washing. It does still have the issue of allowing your character to overwash easier, but I think it’s worth the trade off for encouraging attackers to worry less about their mobbing abilities
     
  11. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    If there is no downside to playing ranged attackers, would there be any incentive to play any other class?
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  12. pharaoh
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    pharaoh Master Chronos

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    Agreed, I actually think washing is too easy...I started washing really late (20 base INT until 17x) and still ended up with enough HP to do everything (currently 12k clean, will be at 15k after I convert all of my extra mp).

    There should be some drawback to washing ranged characters, because right now there's no point in making a hero or paladin when you can hit 30k on a NL.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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  13. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    It's important to note that this would also increase everyone's damage even without base int. I don't think it's feasible to have a system differentiate between base int and int from gear, and I get the impression that you'd have to rewrite the whole damage system to make that stipulation. So what would end up happening from int/2 bonus damage is every character would get an extra ~20 main stats while wearing a MoN, and ~30 main stats while wearing a HTP/TLP, as with a full roster of equips you still have ~40-60 int just sitting there.

    So it would be roughly equivalent to the difference between mw20 and mw30
     
  14. NecksonBad
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    NecksonBad Slime

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    The current state of ML

    Players who dont wash:
    early game= lv100 boss
    end game= lv1 crook

    Players who wash:
    early game= lv1 crook
    end game= lv100 boss

    Players who didnt wash enough:
    early game= lv5 crook
    end game= lv 35 sin that didnt max Keen Eyes or Lucky Seven
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2

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