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Counterpart suggestion on the new ws system

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Toon, Aug 4, 2021.

  1. Toon
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    Toon Capt. Latanica

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    I've been thinking of this proposal (https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/new-system-for-white-scrolls-feedback-thread.41409/) and it's really exciting thinking that bossing may be profitable again. It just hurts knowing that way worse old school servers can maintain people bossing for fun and profit (even after 200) and we haven't been doing it the last year, at least. It's really sad to see how many pb runners just log once a week for pb and this doesn't only happen in one of the squads. Imo it has to do with the fact that they reached end game and they can't boss to advance more. For most, it doesn't make sense multimage farming as it's not fun and the cost in mesos of 1 att, after a certain point in the game, is way too high. Bossing is a reasonable way to keep continue progressing slowly at end the game. In ML right now this is just not reasonable.

    Now, i wanted to discuss my point of view on ws/cs and bossing and the prestigious coins proposal.
    Like it has already been said on the main post, the solution doesn't solve the problem that ws/cs are tax free currency's as the coins would be the new tax free currency. At the same time, adding ws/cs at boss droptables may be too incosistent for people who don't boss a lot. Considering those two facts i'd go for another solution:

    1: Rework of the last event boss point system and make it permanent. Each boss would give one total pull of points and this pull would be equally distributed among everyone on the expedition, so taking mules to bosses would penalize the group and benefit only one of the runners and probably wouldn't be suported. Stronger squads would earn more coins per player but weaker squad would still have a constant income from bossing and people would slowly upgrade to get stronger and earn more points/hr as they get better gear. Those boss point rewards would be untrasferable and usable at a npc shop were you could buy a ws or a cs.

    2: Every White scroll and Chaos Scroll fresh obtained by any means would be tradeble only once. After that, to make it tradeble again, you would need to buy a Scissor of Karma from a custom npc that's only usable for those scrolls (4-8m mesos). This would be applied to every godly scroll on the server. So, after maintenance, every scroll would be tradeble without the Scissor only once. As i know, there are Scissors of Karma on the client, they just aren't used for obvious reasons. In this scenario, they would be usefull only for CS/WS.

    For sure, the right number of boss points for ea boss/cs/ws aren't going to be easy to find, but i believe that with those suggestions we can make bossing more profitable and solve the problem of ws/cs being a tax free currency.

    EDIT 1: looks like SoK are hard to code so another option would be setting up a npc that makes your untradeble cs/ws into tradeble upon the payment of a tax of 4-8m
    EDIT 2: the prestigious coin suggestion don't really fix the tax free currency problem even with the meso cost of trading coins to untradeble cs/ws as the coins can be used infinetly for big trades. Only the person who gonna actually scroll is going to pay for the tax. In my suggestion, everytime you wanna reutilize ws and cs for big trades you gonna have to pay the tax.
     
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  2. xiaoyaoz
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    xiaoyaoz Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    Lets compare this with what the prestigious coin try to address:

    • Point 1 "total pull of points" prevents mulability.
    • Assuming point system applies to most bosses like the last event (including rav/pap), chars that are lv130+ can participate as well. So, not exactly just catering towards end-game players?
    • Bossing more rewarding due to points

    • Point system doesn't provide any new utility
    • Point 2 introduces Scissor meso sink for tradability, which will discourage "go-to" currency
    • Point 2 may discourage speculative markets
    • Point 2 does not completely invalidate the existing supply of WS and/or their net worth due to one-time free tradability.

    • Doesn't solve WS whales getting ban, but at least WS will now be producible with points instead of RNG-gated
    • Doesn't apply soft cap, nor raise valueless drops, nor safety net for decreasing value drops
    • Instead, Point 1 provides a floor earnings from bossing that scales with cs/ws prices

    I think in general, this suggestion seems easier to implement and less custom than the prestigious coin.
    At least, if this doesn't work, it's way easier to revert this change than the prestigious coin?
     
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  3. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    From a staff point of view, the OP's suggestion actually seems much more difficult :(
    • Having a point system that is / n number of people from the total pool is something that doesn't currently exist, so it would need to be coded fresh
    • Making WS/CS only tradeable once isn't really possible in our current confines of the system, things need to be ALL tradeable or ALL untradeable
      • Timeless/Reverse is only untradeable once it seems item exp, but WS/CS doesn't have item exp or any changed state after one trade so it won't be as straightforward I believe
      • Even the timeless/reverse untradeable is a custom feature not supported in our V62 client, which is why even if it has item exp it doesn't have the "untradeable" tag
      • Old WS/CS that aren't freshly made would possibly need database alterations (? not sure about this one, as I'm not entirely sure how the proposed system by OP would work regarding existing scrolls), and this is done manually
    • Scissors of Karma isn't in our client currently, and wasn't in the GMS client until v67 & was only released in v72
      • I know there are even later version pservers v83+ that haven't been able to get SoK working properly and needed to fix it, so this adds more dev work & complications
      • There's also the issue of BALANCING SoK, unless they are to only work for CS/WS
    I've seen this point raised a few times, but wouldn't adding mesos as the secondary ingredient for exchanging coins into scrolls be a tax replacement?

    Imagine "X" coins + "5 mil" = WS. Unless you mean for the people that are solely holding onto coins and not exchanging into anything.
     
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  4. OP
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    Toon
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    Toon Capt. Latanica

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    The thing is that only the person who gonna actually scroll is going to pay for the tax as the new tax free currency gonna be prestigious coins. In my suggestion, everytime you wanna reutilize ws and cs for big trades you gonna have to pay tax.
     
  5. OP
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    Toon
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    Toon Capt. Latanica

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    Another option to counter this SoK problem would be just setting up a npc to convert your untradeble ws/cs into tradable upon the fee payment.
     
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  6. shck
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    shck Timer Retired Staff

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    I might be shitposting but what if every existing and freshly obtained WS/CS was given an expiry date...
     
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  7. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Players talked about it before in other forums and I think whatdatoastwhatdatoast gave a pretty nice summary of the implications here
     
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  8. OP
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    Toon Capt. Latanica

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    18DCDB7F-FC8D-4015-BCF1-6EC6F79D7D85.png
     
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  9. Jaewonnie
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    Jaewonnie Capt. Latanica

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    • Agree Agree x 3
  10. Assman
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    Assman Orange Mushroom

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    One of the reason of this price spike is definitely cause of Pink cape. :pompus:

    There have been a lot of discussion on the WS/CS problems, somehow it fell like is still going no where.
    Yes, there is a lot of ideas pop out but by changing is not that easy. Right?
    From what i see and survey so far in this server, most playas are having tough time and with the current spike in the market, more and more become less active playing.

    To be honest is not just WS or CS, is almost everything that have gone up. And with that market continuously go higher and higher that will soon become a permanent damage to the server where less new playas coming in and more MULEs is create to satisfy their own appetite. To keep the economy go around there have to be new playas coming in to the server or else this is gonna fell like some server that i played before and it sucks. There's a lot more but i better stop here.

    This is just part of my opinion from playing mushroom game. World Peace.
     
  11. Jaewonnie
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    Jaewonnie Capt. Latanica

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    In general its not just pink capes but more so common attack gear (gloves, capes etc.) that have gone up in price. It makes sense, all the ppl that started playing since covid are at or nearing endgame where they have decent enough gear such that their next investments are high meso to atk ratio upgrades like pink capes (and relatedly cs) as you've mentioned in your post.

    Maplestory is a game about progression. You start out weak, you level up, upgrade gear, get stronger, and unlock new content. The majority of players are near endgame and that means "progression" in their perspective is upgrading gear. As a result theres a huge demand for ws/cs as well as glove attack scrolls which are items directly tied to increasing your character's damage. We see the corresponding increases in prices as cs has tripled since the 2020 anniversary event and ws has more than doubled. Similar trend for 7 slot gloves and their 30% scrolls.

    It's not surprising that people are less active. It's simply not possible to afford these upgrades nowadays unless you resort to exciting, extra degen methods whether it be mesoprinting, leeching etc. No upgrades = no progression and the maplestory experience becomes stagnant. Especially with vaccination rates going up in many countries and ppl returning to their jobs, progression seems less and less attainable so why bother?
     
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  12. Myungsoo
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    Myungsoo Slimy

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    Love the idea, however I'd be more in favor of permanent untradeable CS / WS because I think that it encourages effort that doesn't force a monopoly over the top 0.01% of the players. It also makes scrolling unique items more interesting for people who lets say have already gotten their perfect weapon / gloves. So now they focus on making .e.g. perfect sauna robe for mages.

    You could say that this removes the fun of profit, but you're still able to make a perfect item that you could sell for mesos later.
     
  13. Assman
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    Assman Orange Mushroom

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    Sadly what you say is true. Hopefully everything will get better soon so as the world we live in.
     

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