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Fix the scroll economy please!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by RayF, Aug 18, 2021.

  1. RayF
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    RayF Mano

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    Is it just me or is anyone else annoyed with how one person can control the entire economy of scrolls that are only obtainable from gach? Right now face avoid 30% and OA Str 30% have through the roof prices, only because select people are rich enough to hold stacks of them and flip it for insane profit. I get that merching is part of the game but IMO it shouldn't be this abusable.

    I feel like it would just be more balanced if all of these scrolls were able to be obtained through monster drops? There might be problems with this that I haven't thought of yet, but I've noticed in the past when prices have gone noticeably up for scrolls that can be farmed from mobs, all that happens is more people will spend time at those maps and the price will slowly drop again due to supply.

    Also when sweeper mules were nerfed last patch and I was told things would get cheaper as a result, I was not imagining myself to get shafted on both sides (making less money per hour and ALSO having to pay more for scrolls). Any thoughts on this?
     
    • Agree Agree x 24
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. redblueblur
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    redblueblur Mr. Anchor

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    I agree with you on this.
    one of the many reasons why this is so, is such by the ability to multi manage mages that generate excessive meso surplus in our economy
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 9
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
  3. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Are you against multi mages by any chance?
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
  4. redblueblur
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    redblueblur Mr. Anchor

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    Nope, I'm just addressing the big elephant in the room that made us go thru ridiculous changes. Also, my love/hate for them has no influence on my opinion
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Jaynus
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    Jaynus Timer

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    Don't bother. He's not going to change his stance of making multi mages the convenient scapegoat
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    I believe this is something that's been mentioned many times over the years and I strongly believe it'll have a positive impact on the economy and the expected value from bossing.

    Distribute all the Gacha only scrolls to major bosses so there can be a steady influx of these scrolls and make them harder to be controlled, kinda like how the weapon 30% scrolls in CWK do.

    This is not a 100% fix to bossing nor the economy. But it acts as a band aid to make certain scrolls more affordable and at the same time add some to the EV of bossing parties. over a longer course these scrolls should stabilize more and result in a healthier market surround them.

    You could add them anywhere but having them in major bosses would mean that it's impossible to benefit from it with many mages as far as I can think of.

    If you can think of any implications with such a change please discuss it as I'm curious what other people think about similar changes to gach only scrolls. In my opinion it's been a problem thats been neglected and slept on all these years.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  7. UnknownCode
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    UnknownCode Nightshadow

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    6:37 PM
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    My stance on this personally is the ability that arch mages/bishops on the high ground that sell leech and/or can farm for hours on end that obtain scrolls and/or gach whereas other classes can't from the lack of mob kill count that they possess their Ultimates can hit 15 monsters at once no other class can do that not even Corsair because Airstrike hits 6 monsters.

    Do I blame multi-mages for inflation? No.
    Do I blame the multi-mage player for inflation? To an extent yes.

    EDIT: I should have mentioned my reasoning which is

    The arch mage/bishop gets to choose the price of the scrolls if theres none in the market, I'm not blaming mages as the class but the player thats choosing to input its prices.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 8
    • Agree Agree x 4
  8. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    I'm sorry but you are only blaming the seller of these items? while it's a clear cut example of supply and demand. As long as people are willing to pay these prices they will be sold for such prices.

    Or are you the good Samaritan that sells his GFA 30% for 5m instead of the 20m people are willing to pay and giving yourself a 15m loss? Yeah I don't think so.. Should probably rethink your reasoning as it makes no sense at all.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
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  9. yurain
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    yurain Windraider

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    YUrain
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    Opening them as drops to less farmed areas but also feasible places also can create possible new training area.
    Deep ludi buff again? Since the portal changes was obviously not enough.

    Also. Multi mage is a result of the meta today, because everything else is just poverty.
    You should probably look a bit further than just "oh mages bad".
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. Toon
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    Toon Capt. Latanica

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    Our economy is a feature to make the game more challenging
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
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  11. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    You know, I remember reading this exact same thread right before cwkpq was released. Back then everyone was complaining about weapon 30% scrolls being too expensive.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Is nobody going to mention the population decline over the past few months? Fewer players. Fewer gach generated.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  13. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    That's the spirit!
     
  14. jeff22222
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    jeff22222 King Slime

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    Tbh it's one of the biggest things people are neglecting. There's no more boom in new players that actively grind at CD's, MP3 and what have you. All the gach being generated is the people who are leeching, meso farming in whatever map with multi-mages, and 7f really. Only time i personally get gach nowadays is when i decide to farm some meso and thats it. CWKpq channels aren't full like they were a few months ago at reset. Even horntail in the beginning of the year people were fighting to get channels and having to have earlier run times to hold a ch. The playerbase just isn't the same anymore and its just as big a factor in economic changes as everything else. People quit with all their scrolls too, or just pass it on to their friends but that doesnt do much in terms of generating a healthy balance of scrolls with a healthy balance of scrollers.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. Feeed
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    Feeed Mr. Anchor

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    One possible "solution" could possibly be adding Armor 30s to GPQ (and OPQ?). It isn't abusable by one person on many clients, it's a huge pool so infinite runs shouldn't be too broken, increases supply, sheds some light on content that isn't done terribly often, does not inject raw meso into the economy and is taxed, and gives especially newerish players a source of income

    ...worth noting people still manipulate the Weap30 economy despite the fact that they drop at CWKPQ, but even then increasing supply of gach-only scrolls make it -less- of a problem

    In any case, the bigger problem here is the massive inflation of the economy- this just a byproduct of it. But a bandaid fix isn't a bad idea.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  16. UnknownCode
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    UnknownCode Nightshadow

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    Generally speaking if someone places an item or scroll for a certain price and others owl it to check if the scroll's price went up after a set time they'll follow suit and set it to a similar price or a bit cheaper to sell it more quickly.

    Supply and demand does play a huge role in this, however it runs more towards the multi-mage players because they're able to gain more rather than others and so it screws over everyone else that doesn't have enough or get burnt out from playing entirely because of their lack of mobbing capabilities. (e.g. scrolls, equips, gach.)
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
  17. Jvcki
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    Jvcki Slime

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    i wouldn't say it's abusable really but people have grinded gpq solo on multiple clients before
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Feeed
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    Feeed Mr. Anchor

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    Oh for sure, but because you can only do Bonus on one client and solo GPQ takes MUCH longer then 3+ man GPQ, it's nowhere near optimal and doesn't attract sweatlords the same way other options do
     
    • Like Like x 2
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  19. s0mething
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    s0mething Capt. Latanica

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    one-of-a-kind-WS/CS, one-of-a-kind-30%-Scrolls, one-of-a-kind-EVERYTHING.

    That'll teach those hoarders.
     
    • Creative Creative x 2
  20. Feeed
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    Feeed Mr. Anchor

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    Just so this doesn't cause massive inconvenience in regular use cases, maybe just reduce the size of a stack of one scroll to 1. Instead of holding 100 in one slot, one scroll = one slot. (or 2-3 max like Ciders)
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1

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