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Allow disconnected people to return to bosses/PQS

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by fael, Aug 22, 2021.

  1. fael
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    fael Nightshadow

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    A negative aspect on this game, in my opinion, is that the vast majority of contents available and wanted are very time consuming. Except for optimized parties, almost all contents requires at least 40 minutes. Probably our main contents - that I consider HT and PB - requires something like 1,5h. For that reason, I'd like to suggest, as title said, to allow disconnected people to return to bosses/PQs. Not every d/c is an internet trouble. It can be caused by the power outage or even game crashes that aren't uncommon, and losing an entire run just because of that hurts, specially because they're long and limited (2 runs per day, mostly). I've even seen fake autobans expelling people from 1 week limited PB run, and sometimes a d/c can make the whole party lose the run (like the only SE on a 6 man HT party with a lot of NLs, or the only pirate on a CWKPQ starting run, for example).

    I confess I didn't think much about the negative aspects of that suggestion. Two cons I thought were 1. the fact that people would do 100% afk services with no problem, but I feel market can adjust prices and this d/c thing is worst than that and 2. people could use mules without wasting potions, but, except for TL mules, I'd say relogging everytime would take more work than just letting your pet heals your mule.

    Lmk what you think!
     
    • Agree Agree x 17
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  2. Awrien
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    Awrien Horny Mushroom

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    Ignoring ease of implementation, because I have zero sense for that, this would probably be the greatest QOL improvement I could ask for.

    To address the possible negatives, you could add a limit of one reconnect per run, and also give a time limit of maybe 10 minutes or so to relog after disconnecting. This would still cover most of the genuine disconnect issues, while stopping people from just bringing extra TL or res mules for free. Again I don't know if this makes it even harder to implement, but it's a possibility to consider.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  3. OP
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    fael
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    fael Nightshadow

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    Yeah, I thought exactly the same lol
     
  4. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    As much as I would love to see this, its unlikely this suggestion goes through considering it has been denied in the past.

    There are ways to get around potential abuses:
    1) Trying to abuse login mechanic to work around seduce
    -> make it so if you disconnect while seduced you will be dead when you log back in
    2) Trying to abuse login mechanic to cheese boss runs for "afk" service
    -> Add a timer such that you can only reconnect for 5 minutes, and only once per run
    Further more if it is possible to distinguish between game crashes or user disconnects (alt + f4, manually logging out, clicking x button on client) you could make it so the user can't log back into the boss fight.

    Until then, the best thing to do as a work around is design your boss runs around the fact that DCs happen.

    You have more than 1 nightlord on the team? Consider bringing 2 archers.

    You have a bishop in your horntail run that needs to heal a sed target? Consider having the seduce target be someone like a shadower that can survive even if the bishop DCs.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
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  5. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    GMs have denied requests to port characters back into boss fights during false autobans. I'm guessing they'd be even less inclined to create a system that would allow you to reconnect into a boss fight penalty free. I agree it's a shitty game design especially with hiccups in server stability, but there really isn't a clean way to implement reconnecting without breaking other aspects of the game.
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    Making any relogging user come back dead with either a decreased timer or a timer that counts down even while offline is probably the "best" we'd get, but even that isnt perfect and leads to abuse. It becomes (even more) trivial to pack in time leap mules. If a player dies in a disadvantageous location, such as away from other dead players or under a bird statue that is being aggro abused, players can relog to either save on multiple resses or circumvent positioning altogether. Not to mention the possible difficulties whenever multiple maps are concerned, such as cwkpq or ht.

    DCs suck, but it's wise to plan for them. And the risk of se dc might literally be the only thing balancing NL in this age. :whistling:
     
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  7. Shengo
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    Shengo Slime

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    I don't know why is this got denied since this feature is something very common for most of the current games, a time and number of attempts reconnection limit will solve the concerned issue mentioned above.

    You do not go bossing if you are facing intensive lag in the game, simple as that.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    ShengoShengo -ovv-ovv the reason GMs don't warp people back into bosses is because it messes with things unfortunately T-T

    Bosses take place in instances, and warping them back puts them back in the map BUT not part of the instance (GMs don't have the power to shove people back into the instance either) this leaves them in a weird limbo state. For things like CWKPQ with multiple portals and maps, if you're not part of the instance you won't be able to continue. For things like HT (this is one is just conjecture btw, not 100% certain how it works), it could mess up the seduce order or make them immune to individual sed.

    Instances are super finicky and I just remember the first time I hosted GM Hide & Seek, I sent everyone into an instance and they couldn't interact with people normally until they relogged. They would go to a map and it be empty, even though there were other people there. Truly banished to the shadow realm :monkax:
     
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  9. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    This used to be something that was abused in older (and less secured) v55 and v62 servers. People would go into gpq and then do some sort of trick with a portal/npc (I don't remember the specifics) to get their own free instance. They basically got their own private channel in every map they desiredOnionListen
     
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  10. Shengo
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    Shengo Slime

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    Ahhh, thanks for the explanation. I would understand if this suggestion got denied due to the limitation of the game and v62 coding itself, which makes it very hard to implement this.
     
  11. OP
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    fael
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    fael Nightshadow

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    Maybe it's a dumb question, but is it possible to implement a system to make people part of the instance after logging back after a dc? I mean, an automatic warp, since GMs can't do that.

    Probably dc is the worst penalty possible. Seems any of those mentioned penalties would still be a better scenario. If it's doable to code, we could discuss a fair punishment for dc cases.
     
  12. Feeed
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    Feeed Mr. Anchor

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    Possibly add a cost to reconnect to the instance (price depending on the instance) and a time limit to reconnect? e.g. 5m to reconnect at Horntail, can re-enter up to 10 minutes after DC

    I'd rather pay a sum to reconnect to a boss instance rather than be excluded from the rest of the run, and I'd rather take a sed/death than disconnect and eat the cost every time it happens.

    For buyers, you CAN keep disconnecting and reconnecting, but that would be way more expensive for you than just having the sellers handle it.
     
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  13. HollyCrap
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    HollyCrap Capt. Latanica

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    Dcing at bosses has to be the worst feeling of this game, close to booming a good item
     
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  14. redblueblur
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    redblueblur Mr. Anchor

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    i don't think we need such a long period of time to relog, by changing it instead to 1min seems more logical and less prone to loopholes
     
  15. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    While I doubt whether this suggestion is even possible to implement, I feel like a 1 minute timer would be too strict. There are plenty of occasions where the server (or your connection) shits itself and you get the "This account is already logged in"-message for over a minute.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  16. mard
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    mard Mixed Golem Retired Staff

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    Bumping this suggestion; wondering if this is still not possible or whether workarounds have / can be developed in the future to work around how the instances currently work.
     
  17. Pasta
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    Pasta Game Developer Staff Member Game Developer

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    This will be problematic until the full PQ/instance rework, which also aims to streamline the way all the instances are coded.

    For the time being, there is a big difference between, say, rejoining Zakum, or rejoining HT, or rejoining APQ: ignoring the current lack of automated instance reattaching support for it as a whole, Zakum would just need to warp you back in the map, HT would need to keep track of the current fight step to know in which map to place you in, APQ would need to keep track of the current step, and to recalculate the couples distribution, to pick the bonus type.

    These are just a few examples, but basically every instance would need unique handling, which is why some sort of unification is required.

    Note that I'm not expressing on whether this will be accepted or not, I'm only explaining why it could not be discussed sooner. We will reach this discussion topic too, though.
     
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