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Information Summer Event 2021 Balance Changes [Explained]

Discussion in 'Update Notes' started by Nise, Aug 30, 2021.

  1. RegalStar
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    RegalStar Nightshadow

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    Posting for the record that I'm really not that optimistic about the whole coin thing. While getting enough money for the amount of WS/CS needed to make good gears is difficult, one WS or CS has actually never exceeded the price of one MW20. So in order for the coins to actually make a significant impact on a bosser's profit, they'd have to drop at a rate of something to the tune of 1-3 coins per HT run, at which point they'd consitute a significant influx of WS/CS and visibly alter the gearscape of the server. And if there's one thing I learned about the decision makers of the server from two years of playing, it's that they are super duper conservative about any sort of potentially big change to the server. So in the end, the coins may very well end up dropping so rarely that they barely make a dent in the scheme of anything, except creating a much more convenient tax-free currency that result in even less meso drain from the economy.

    Of course, I could be proven wrong. I do hope that I'm proven wrong, actually. We'll see how this rolls out in practice, I guess.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. Gurk
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    Gurk Nightshadow

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    No dunas exp buff?!
    OnionCryRun
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Useful Useful x 1
  3. JDPJHC
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    JDPJHC Mixed Golem

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    I feel like the community kind of came to a conclusion that this coin idea was going to be bad. Why are we still doing this?

    It also feels weird that we're supposed to just start giving a shit about bossing and collecting these coins, even though they will not be redeemable?

    You can catch me still hexamage farming for this event LOL.

    I do like everything else about these balance changes though.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 8
    • Agree Agree x 6
  4. Lin
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    Lin Headless Horseman

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    If everyone in the boss map gets 1 coin when someone picks it up, who's to stop someone from doing a 30 man scarlion with 20+ mules on the left?

    Now I'm contemplating leaving work halfway to do legends news MapleF3
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Great Work Great Work x 4
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Jaewonnie
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    Jaewonnie Capt. Latanica

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    Crimsonwood Mountain: Cavern of Pain
    4:46 AM
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    Pretty sure it's a single item, as in you either roll it off or split it's sale amongst runners
     
    • Like Like x 3
  6. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Boss / Neo tokyo changes
    The changes here are very welcome, and I hope that Neo tokyo is finally worth players time to run. Limiting expeditions to 6 players should not pose any problem to the vast majority of squads running this boss.

    Pink Bean


    The pink bean rebalance does help even things out between range and melee attackers, but its not complete and as long as range attackers are free to aggro abuse munin I predict melee attackers will remain second rate. Things should definitely be a lot better for them now, however, as there shouldn't ever be a point in the run where "afking" is preferable to attacking.

    Right now there are 3 tiers of classes in pink bean.

    Tier 1
    Nightlords
    Tier 2
    Range classes
    Tier 3
    Everyone else

    The gap between nightlords and every other range class is largely caused by the ariel change which makes its 10 second stun full map attack effectively undodgeable due to munin aggro range. So, the only counter play here is to get a miss, and nightlords are the class that do this best. One of these things need to change / be reverted in order to bring balance between nightlords and other range classes.

    This is definitely a step in the right direction, and we will see how much it ends up helping melee attackers.

    Coin System

    I predict the serverwide test will not be very effective at gaining valuable feedback. Because staff will conceal rates, you will simply get feedback from people stating whether they think the coins are dropping too often or not at all, which is likely going to be based on the specific RNG they experience.

    A better way to balance the rates would instead look at the probability of it dropping, the number of people and time required to clear the boss, and take those numbers to piece together the amount of time it would take for 1 person to farm a full CS / WS from that boss. You could take a look at how "long" it would take someone to gain a scroll from this system and check to see if that's sufficient for all the bosses you plan on having these coins drop from.

    Furthermore, the actual impact on the CS / WS market isn't something we will be able to see until the exchange is actually enabled. Either way, I do plan on testing out neo tokyo after this patch and will do my best to provide some useful feedback on this system.

    Skill Changes
    Skill changes were minimal and not too controversial. However, instead of shadow star duration increased to 180 seconds, I think you guys should look into the recharge price of Magic Throwing Knives. They cost way too much to recharge and should be balanced to be more in line with other stars.

    Mount Changes
    I think they should be allowed to be used everywhere, including PQs, unless the rope climbing increase will somehow break PQs by allowing people to shave off a few seconds on their clear time.
     
    • Agree Agree x 11
    • Great Work Great Work x 6
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. yuweii
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    yuweii Red Snail

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    I just want to understand the balance changes happening. I believe the buff to buccs is a good one. Being a melee attacker (for most of 150s) with ok stance, no achilles, and much harder to wash. But deciding to give NL a quality of life change (its a buff but you want to call it QoL) after the alchemist nerf is hard to accept. Nightlords are consistently at the top of PB DPM charts doing 5m+, while kakine with near-perfect gear doing 3.5m... People meme you when you spend mesos on warrior class because they still won't be getting invitations to those 6mans HT PB or CWK. Sure there are few exceptions like hosting your own tea party... but where are the balance changes?
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Feeed
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    Feeed Mr. Anchor

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    This would only make ws/cs even more expensive (due to increased coin demand) and defeat the entire purpose of the change

    Regarding the op, Im very excited about the NT changes!! Great fixes across the board :D
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  9. OP
    OP
    Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    • Great Work Great Work x 11
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  10. ryanlights
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    ryanlights Windraider

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    • Disagree Disagree x 14
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  11. xhae
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    xhae Slime

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    on another note, rather than increasing Ariel's hitbox for shads' nate, why not increase Assassinate range in general? Would be an increase to the QOL for shad mains. For example, in HT, shads have to edge the plats on left side to be able to hit LH and LA and often spend a lot of time positioning and/or falling.
     
    • Agree Agree x 11
  12. Oradious
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    Oradious Mr. Anchor

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    How am I supposed to participate in such end game content as a proletariat FP mage?
     
    • Agree Agree x 16
    • Great Work Great Work x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Creative Creative x 1
  13. Vowels
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    Vowels Slimy

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    Nice poison immune, many coins indeed

    why are some classes locked hard out of prestigious coins content
     
    • Agree Agree x 8
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  14. Miniskirt
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    Miniskirt Slime

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    Bossing Drop Changes ! :p I love it, thank you all staffs :heartbeat:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. jesscapades
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    jesscapades Pac Pinky

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    i'll be the one to say it. i guess it sounds toxic, but someone has to say it so please don't ban me: this was not a scenario where everyone's vote should've matter equally. what mattered more were the arguments presented in the responses, which imo pointed out a lot of serious flaws with this and were not sufficiently refuted
     
    • Agree Agree x 13
    • Disagree Disagree x 13
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  16. UnknownCode
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    UnknownCode Nightshadow

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    I voted on slightly oppose, and there were others that posted it was a bad idea.
    Screen Shot 2021-08-29 at 8.22.49 PM.png

    For example my post linked here https://forum.maplelegends.com/inde...olls-feedback-thread.41409/page-3#post-277098 although Nightz777Nightz777 and aussietinaskaussietinask replied to it and it did somewhat relieve my confusion, but I am still a bit paranoid about Legendary Spirit's interaction with White Scrolls and i haven't seen a patch relating to it being fixed since.

    They explained something about reverting the scrolls into coins then using Legendary Spirit, but what about the people that don't know or; rather forget that it can be changed into coins to avoid misuse with Legendary Spirit.
     
  17. Toon
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    Toon Capt. Latanica

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    Overall, i like the changes but the new coins gonna start being used as a tax free currency for most trades. The fact that there is a 5m tax to convert them into ws/cs doesn't make it way better as only the person who is going to scroll with them gonna pay that tax, while you can start only buying and selling valuable items for prestigious coins in order to avoid tax. As the system is close to being implemented and my last suggestion would be another trouble to code (https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/counterpart-suggestion-on-the-new-ws-system.41897/), i'd like to suggest something around the prestigious coin concept.

    Suggestion: whenever you trade a prestigious coin, you would have to pay 350k tax for ea coin. There is a similar system working on maple royals that discounts 30m for ea 1B mesos coin from the person who is using those coins to trade. The value is discounted automatically on the trade and should't be a big hasle to code.
    (edit) I came to the 350k value as staff seem to tax 15 prestigious coin as 5m to trade for a ws/cs.

    Oh and ofc remove poison imune from bosses.
     
    • Creative Creative x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Lin
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    Lin Headless Horseman

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    Yea i know, just stating if they do change it to something like that in the future
     
  19. Gurk
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    Gurk Nightshadow

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    Regarding dunas, staff has said that they were cautious with raising its exp further for fear of there still being room for potential abuse/cheese with mages ulting (even though nameless is far more cheesable and gives almost twice the exp) and that they would continue to monitor the situation. Are these concerns still relevant?

    I personally have not heard of any such cheese still going on and would have thought it'd have been resolved with the vertical increase of dunas' attack range. Even -ovv-ovv, the owner of 3+ dunas chairs, considers dunas to be too annoying to bother with now. Is there any possibility dunas exp could be brought up to par with the rest of NT this patch or any time soon? Would hate to have to wait several months again for the third round of dunas exp buffs and it feels like now would be the prime time to do so with the NT drop rate buffs.

    I had been hoping to add dunas to my group's daily NT routine but with its current paltry exp, drop rate buffs are unlikely to be enticing enough to do so still.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  20. Jolly_Walker
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    Jolly_Walker Chronos

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    Just curious, would the prestigious coin drop decrease the droprate of boss loot? Since its added to the drop loot table diluting the pool? (I'm just assuming thats how boss drops work)
    It would be totally acceptable if the coins have value, but its just a worthless testing coin for now it might be considered a slight nerf to zak/HT/PB loots during this testing phase.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Creative Creative x 1

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