1. Hello!

    First of all, welcome to MapleLegends! You are currently viewing the forums as a guest, so you can only view the first post of every topic. We highly recommend registering so you can be part of our community.

    By registering to our forums you can introduce yourself and make your first friends, talk in the shoutbox, contribute, and much more!

    This process only takes a few minutes and you can always decide to lurk even after!

    - MapleLegends Administration-
  2. Experiencing disconnecting after inserting your login info? Make sure you are on the latest MapleLegends version. The current latest version is found by clicking here.
    Dismiss Notice

Panic/Coma buffs

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by joota, Oct 17, 2021.

  1. joota
    Offline

    joota Mr. Anchor Retired Staff

    266
    127
    251
    Jul 13, 2019
    4:27 AM
    Buccaneer
    173
    Freelancer
    Alright here I am to do some quick math loosely based on this baller suggestion...

    upload_2021-10-17_10-15-0.png

    NOTES:
    - Used Nise's formula compilation for calculations
    - Assumes 0 buff time; i.e. combo attack is always on (this plays a big role)
    - Only sword heroes used (6 weapon speed base weapon)
    - Brandish/Panic calculation includes double recharge rate and damage based on available combos
    - Does not include Enrage

    Current State of Heroes
    Damage multipliers in 1 minute of freefire (multiply this by your range to get dpm):
    - Current Hero w/ Brandish (booster): 790.4
    - Current Hero w/ Brandish (SI): 940.952381

    - Current Hero w/ Brandish/Panic (booster): 735.2739726
    - Current Hero w/ Brandish/Panic (SI): 876.3265306

    According to Nise:
    Code:
    Panic & Coma (also referred to as "Finishers" by Ayumilove):
    Finishers = Base Damage * Combo Attack Modifier (see above) * Orb multiplier * Skill Dmg %
    Orb multipliers are:
    1 orb = 100%
    2 orbs = 120%
    3 orbs = 154%
    4 orbs = 200%
    5 - 10 orbs = 250%
    The recommendation is to scale orb multiplier better, so Panic is worth using. Also make Combo Attack a passive skill so it always gains combos just like Bucc Energy Charge

    This will make heroes a not so afk class and completely ruin their "class identity" but it'll make it so they have to use all their combos every time it stacks fully to maximize single target dpm.

    Suggestion 1:
    Code:
    Panic & Coma (also referred to as "Finishers" by Ayumilove):
    Finishers = Base Damage * Combo Attack Modifier (see above) * Orb multiplier * Skill Dmg %
    Orb multipliers are:
    1 orb = 100%
    2 orbs = 125%
    3 orbs = 150%
    4 orbs = 175%
    5 orbs = 200%
    6 orbs = 225%
    7 orbs = 250%
    8 orbs = 275%
    9 orbs = 300%
    10 orbs = 325%
    This is pretty much the breakeven point to do equivalent damage comparing Brandish and Brandish/Panic.

    Damage multipliers in 1 minute of freefire (multiply this by your range to get dpm):
    - Suggestion 1 Hero w/ Brandish/Panic (booster): 803.5958904 [1.7% buff compared to Current Brandish Only]
    - Suggestion 1 Hero w/ Brandish/Panic (SI): 957.755102 [1.8% buff compared to Current Brandish Only]

    Suggestion 2:
    Code:
    Panic & Coma (also referred to as "Finishers" by Ayumilove):
    Finishers = Base Damage * Combo Attack Modifier (see above) * Orb multiplier * Skill Dmg %
    Orb multipliers are:
    1 orb = 100%
    2 orbs = 130%
    3 orbs = 160%
    4 orbs = 190%
    5 orbs = 220%
    6 orbs = 250%
    7 orbs = 280%
    8 orbs = 310%
    9 orbs = 340%
    10 orbs = 370%
    30% per orb.

    Damage multipliers in 1 minute of freefire (multiply this by your range to get dpm):
    - Suggestion 2 Hero w/ Brandish/Panic (booster): 844.5890411 [6.9% buff compared to Current Brandish Only]
    - Suggestion 2 Hero w/ Brandish/Panic (SI): 1006.612245 [7.0% buff compared to Current Brandish Only]

    Suggestion 3:
    Code:
    Panic & Coma (also referred to as "Finishers" by Ayumilove):
    Finishers = Base Damage * Combo Attack Modifier (see above) * Orb multiplier * Skill Dmg %
    Orb multipliers are:
    1 orb = 135%
    2 orbs = 170%
    3 orbs = 205%
    4 orbs = 240%
    5 orbs = 275%
    6 orbs = 310%
    7 orbs = 345%
    8 orbs = 380%
    9 orbs = 425% (oops I jumped 45% here)
    10 orbs = 460%
    35% per orb

    Damage multipliers in 1 minute of freefire (multiply this by your range to get dpm):
    - Suggestion 3 Hero w/ Brandish/Panic (booster): 926.5753425 [17.4% buff compared to Current Brandish Only]
    - Suggestion 3 Hero w/ Brandish/Panic (SI): 1104.326531 [17.6% buff compared to Current Brandish Only]

    DPM Comparison on SI
    upload_2021-10-17_10-12-29.png
    Heroes and Paladins use the same weapons so this is the best comparison imo. Note that Panic/Coma only deal damage to 1 target, so Heroes cleave potential is the same.

    Suggestion 2 (370% max orb multiplier) seems like a very good balance imo.

    I'm not a hero tho so I don't actually care what happens to heroes kek GL
     

    Attached Files:

    • Great Work Great Work x 23
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  2. JDPJHC
    Offline

    JDPJHC Mixed Golem

    152
    37
    168
    Aug 6, 2017
    7:27 AM
    JDPJHC
    Hero
    200
    Summer
    This would be pretty sick esp endgame when you can hit 199k panics consistently. However, I think it could prove to be bad in the earlier levels, not sure though, as I’ve never really used panic before 19X.

    As it stands, Panic/Coma are only really useful for a small amount of damage optimization when your Combo is about to run out, and even then its probably a negligible amount.


    This is a great suggestion and I dont really think this would ruin our class identity. Curious to see what other heros think, but pretty sure this class is dead LOL
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. OP
    OP
    joota
    Offline

    joota Mr. Anchor Retired Staff

    266
    127
    251
    Jul 13, 2019
    4:27 AM
    Buccaneer
    173
    Freelancer
    A few extra notes:
    - just like buccs on barrage, with SE you'll probably hit the damage cap with panic a lot and actually lose dpm
    - to maximize dpm you'll have to use panic every ~5.7 times you use brandish on a single target which is every 3.6 seconds on SI (that's a lot to pay attention to)
     
  4. lv1crook
    Offline

    lv1crook Capt. Latanica

    354
    187
    278
    Jan 19, 2021
    Male
    4:27 AM
    Level1Crook
    Corsair
    1
    Flow
    I think it would be more interesting than just spamming brandish like they do now
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Nightz
    Offline

    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

    1,782
    1,033
    490
    Oct 22, 2020
    Male
    12:27 PM
    Nightz
    I/L Arch Mage
    200
    Funk & Pasta
    Moderator Post
    This could put warrior in a decent overall spot, especially with the upcoming HT cleave changes that are bound to happen
     
  6. Thuglifer
    Offline

    Thuglifer Capt. Latanica

    340
    88
    273
    Sep 1, 2021
    Male
    7:27 PM
    Beginner
    very cool, i feel like this is going in the right direction in buffing orbs (retaining hero's uniqueness and not transiting into another marksman snipe feels) rather than having a cd on panic/coma.

    Having discussed with some of my hero friends in the past, I feel maybe we could have a larger base of % in the initial orb (1st) and have larger jumps within (1st to 6th) so this way the 1st few orbs at the start can be somewhat useful if needed to be used initially before capping out, gaining more dps momentum in the initial phase as the heros take time to stack the orbs back to 10th. Which also gives the added choice of performing panic/coma (crowd control/ unique circumstance - before dp or whatnot) at 7th orb (rather than waiting for the 10th). where the last few orbs will act as a mini bonus.

    Example (using ur 1st suggestion, illustrative purposes only):
    1 orb = 175%
    2 orbs = 190%
    3 orbs = 210%
    4 orbs = 235%
    5 orbs = 265%
    6 orbs = 300%
    7 orbs = 320%
    8 orbs = 322%
    9 orbs = 324%
    10 orbs = 325%

    Similarly, if one would be running tests on finding a rough estimate on figures to test hero on the test server, if any, could use the current 250% cap and apply to this distribution pattern above.

    almost same as drk hp management kek
     
  7. -ovv
    Offline

    -ovv Horntail

    2,246
    880
    500
    Feb 23, 2020
    Male
    4:27 AM
    -ovv
    Beginner
    200
    Honor
    +1 to combo orb buffs and remaining consistent with Hero identity. During the Enrage buff threads the idea of making Enrage give a temporary boost to orb regeneration came up. It's a shame that 4th job Hero skills make combo orbs and panic/coma completely irrelevant. To give perspective on this - I completely ignored coma/panic on my second washed hero and leveled up other skills instead.

    Just to chime in - during the last combo orb buff, doing brandish + panic every time you got to max charge was only slightly less dpm than doing brandish fully. Minor tweaks to reward players for being more active with their skills would be a great and welcome change to the hero class.

    Edit: Another point I forgot to mention, but this would only really buff Heroes in single target content, which is very relevant to current end-game bossing. It'd increase the upside of Heroes single-target damage. The problem with this rebalancing is that IIRC single-target damage balancing across classes has pretty small margins to work with without reshuffling the tiers completely.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Jaewonnie
    Offline

    Jaewonnie Capt. Latanica

    353
    158
    278
    Apr 21, 2020
    Crimsonwood Mountain: Cavern of Pain
    7:27 AM
    PAWGChamp
    Buccaneer
    I lean more on the side of keeping Hero's single target dmg the same and buffing the relevance of cleave in meta bosses. Assuming perf gear, roughly a 3-cleave hero does double the dmg of a free fire sair iirc so a hero's dmg certainly isnt bad; its just there arent many opportunities to actually showcase this (literally just cwk).

    Maybe in pb, cleave would become more relevant if minibeans were buffed to have like a couple million hp and would fly around main body to cockblock range from hitting it. That would at least put some form of cleave requirement when forming a pb roster instead of the current situation which is "we can still clear with cleave but replacing them with NLs has 0 drawbacks and only advantages." Also get rid of weap cancel on minibeans.

    For HT idk, cant really make cleave relevant unless there's some weap cancel rework or if its just removed all-together.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. TWW
    Offline

    TWW Pink Teddy

    70
    28
    86
    Dec 12, 2020
    Male
    Cleaveland
    7:27 AM
    TheWhiteWolf
    Hero
    188
    Misfits
    The idea for combo attack to be passive/toggleable would be GREAT. But I'd honestly just be happy with a rage buff (23-25 att). We're USELESS in parties and it hurts our pride when we're compared to fucking ciders. Also most heroes (like myself) are actually braindead and just want to AFK/Brandish, rather than have to multitask with panic and coma. Maybe just increase the passive damage gain from combo attack...and for the love of god buff AXES, they stink. It's tiring only having 1 type of weapon that you have to share with stinky paladins.

    J>PB when heroes finally get buffed in 2027 XatShifty
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  10. iPippy
    Offline

    iPippy Nightshadow

    655
    340
    345
    May 19, 2019
    Male
    7:27 AM
    iPippy
    Imagine having a "combo attack" where said combo is brandish until the end of time.

    From a holistic standpoint, panic and coma represent novel ways to "freshen up" the class's mechanics. The issue is that the opportunity cost for the "recharge" is overshadowed by keeping the orbs and holding brandish. Ultimately, there is little incentive to actually use a combo skill, unless the orbs are going to be lost soon anyways. If the first few orbs were to give more boost relative to later orbs (as earlier comment also suggests), damage lost from needing to recharge would be mitigated. This could provide yet another way to help incentivize using these skills. Other potential incentives (any of which could be used in tandem) could be to shift pure brandish dpm to panic/coma or to only remove a fraction of the combo bar instead of the entire bar upon use of a skill. Maybe even remove the "full charge" restriction and have the skill% also scale by number of orbs. Point is there are lots of ways to make panic/coma more viable in single target/cleave situations, providing a way to separate and balance single target from cleave output with more than just a single "brandish" slider and boosting damage in whatever way it is believed to be needed.

    I still hold that even if panic/coma are actually made relevant parts of the hero kit, the game beyond cwk is very unfriendly to hero, and damage boosts won't change that without unbalancing other content. The issue is not really lack of damage, but lack of relevant use for that damage. Overshadowed in all regards as virtually all bossing content is single-target oriented, and mobbing content is dominated by full map attacks of more mobile classes. Even what little niche they do have can be satisfied with dk, sandwiching hero pretty tightly between dk and even paladin, to not trivialize any. Id like to see something happen with panic/coma, but making panic/coma relevant from purely a dpm standpoint feels likely to be either useless or overtuned, without solving the issue that arises from 12 unique 4th job classes competing for relevancy in a number of archetypes which can be counted on one hand.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  11. HollyCrap
    Offline

    HollyCrap Capt. Latanica

    394
    51
    273
    Jul 2, 2017
    Male
    8:27 AM
    HollyCrap
    Cleric
    What if panic also blind bosses? Similar to MM's blind.
     
  12. -ovv
    Offline

    -ovv Horntail

    2,246
    880
    500
    Feb 23, 2020
    Male
    4:27 AM
    -ovv
    Beginner
    200
    Honor
    I think this is where we have some wiggle room for buffs. If charging to max and brandishing is optimal but charging to max and using panic is only slightly behind, then buffing the rate in which recharging occurs could be one area of buffs. Changing how many orbs are consumed is another area that could be considered.

    If heroes could use panic more frequently (fewer orbs consumed), the class could evolve to become pseudo-pinners.

    Edit:
    I forgot about this, but another fun thing to consider would be to allow panic/coma to work with Final Attack, and to buff Final Attack so that it's lagless. Currently panic's utility drops off once you start reaching damage cap, which happens fairly early. If Final Attack worked with panic, it could be another way to bypass the damage cap. This buff could also be applied to paladins and blast, but that might be overtuned a bit.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Magen
    Offline

    Magen Selkie Jr.

    202
    51
    205
    Mar 31, 2020
    Male
    1:27 PM
    bishopmage
    Cleric
    55
    active
    There are few things that make panic and comma not an realistic useable for heroes.
    I think one of the major things that make panic not useable is (1.) the range (as the distance) it can reach - while the animation is such a big blowing and colorful, the actually player action distance is like basic attack which can do 3 difference attacks - from top to bottom, from bottom top top and from mid to mid.
    so lets take the scenario that's an hero standing on the left side 2nd platform from top trying to hit the both heads (fix the cancels already common its so annoying), and his orbs about to end, he gets 2 options to do- a. panic (even if comma would've reached the both heads the damage is just like brandish if not lower so its not an option), and I'm not even get into the discussion if it worth use panic sword when orbs about to end, but just the point that it can do 1 of 3 different animations which means u get 33% to actually hit the head with panic, or b. just the boring option of recharge orbs without panic.
    Therefore even if u want to use panic, and assuming its a good scenario to use it, the chances to hit is too small.
    my suggestion is to adjust the distance of panic/comma to it's animation - so everything that touches the energy explodium will get it's hit.
    2. orbs recharge timer change - so another thing that maybe only heroes know is when u use panic/comma hero's orbs timer is not reset.
    it gets the old timer of the skill and just like booster/si bug when u had Si overrided your booster and it just gone too fast - same thing happen with orbs, but with better animation of the timer drain. yet, to be efficient u have to recall orbs so u get the timer of orbs fully back.
    I think the reason it designed like that in the first place was to encourage crusaders to use panic and comma asap, but when u get to 4th job, you are not use your panic/comma in the same way you had as an crusader.
    my suggestion is to reset orbs timer fully back when hero use panic/comma.
    3.the attack stability - as an high level hero with good gear, I can get to the damage cap with panic - sometimes. but its not helping when the damage of it is so not stable.
    when u do on one panic of 100k(sometimes can get lower line but lets say that is the average of low case line) and the second panic 199k is just look broken (and I'm using a sword so what would've be the damage diff be like as an axe hero? 40to 199?).
    point that has to be mentioned talking about damage cap - basically u can get to 199k when heroes brandish do 54k~ lines and higher so if we get the time consuming of using panic, call orbs skill again and recharge the orbs, what would be the damage advantage to use panic? basically none.
    (btw- anyone know what - dark power does? how it works? I couldnt find any documentation about it and any hero I ask didn't know or didn't even see it exist until I point to this.)
    while I think the damage can be a bit more stable (lets say 60k to 70k difference) I think the better practice of this skill would be to keep the damage stability as is and enable orbs to keep working - not blow them after using this skill, and set a cd of 5 to 10 seconds on using this skill - like sniper's snipe style. reduce the damage to what it was before the improvement would be a fair tradeoff.
    make this class less braindead will be so much more fun and could bring this class back alive.
    4.curses of melees classes during bosses -
    I'm sorry to point this here and I know its not relate to this thread but I feel like if it gets any attention it would be better now then never- this section is not about heroes only - its about every melee class.
    maplelegends always called in high levels community - maplerange. I think there should be boss's rework on the curses that melee classes deals with comparing range classes do.
    I think its unfair that melees classes that must attack from close range gets curses that range attackers do not.
    there are so many bosses that stun from melee distance only; so while melee classes and especially warriors (because of low avoid) get stun, range classes are not.
    That would be actually fair if melee classes would do more damage than range classes (for damage equalization), but its not the case here.
    Its not just that melee classes do less damage than range classes (by default), they are also the only ones that get some of curses and the most damage-reduction of them is stun.
    the day melee classes will not be invited (at all) to PB for example is not too far.
    the suggestion is to rework bosses curses distance.


     
  14. Thuglifer
    Offline

    Thuglifer Capt. Latanica

    340
    88
    273
    Sep 1, 2021
    Male
    7:27 PM
    Beginner
    no
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  15. TORONTOTOKYO
    Offline

    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

    437
    42
    291
    Oct 16, 2021
    7:27 PM
    my suggestion is to make enrage a party buff, reduce the cooldown and reduce the duration. the reduction of CDs and duration make it less mulable. since u will need to control and hit for around 5,6 hits to get full orbs for enrage.
     
  16. Magen
    Offline

    Magen Selkie Jr.

    202
    51
    205
    Mar 31, 2020
    Male
    1:27 PM
    bishopmage
    Cleric
    55
    active
    That has been discussed in other threads, some of them were mine. I used to think make enrage a party buff would help for heroes but that would make sweaty ppl to make a hero mule (like as they did for HH mule or ppl do for Si/se mules).
    Even if ppl wouldnt make hero to a mule, it still not helping at high levels and surely not for bosses you apple all the run eitherway.
    I said it before in Paladin buff thread, (which I support the thread as well) that the main problem of melee classes is all the same and it's about bosses seals/curses in-melee distance which cause to the biggest damage gap between range/melee classes.
    Enrage shouldn't be a party buff but it would be actually a better solution to make cider to 18 wa and keep rage to 20 wa. The gap is not worth to make a mule for it and keep heroes party buffable and helpful in some situations.
     
  17. TORONTOTOKYO
    Offline

    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

    437
    42
    291
    Oct 16, 2021
    7:27 PM
    anything besides damage can be muled, be it party buff enrage or rage but which is harder? i will say enrage becos u either need to actively control the hero to chalk up orbs for enrage or foot pedal meta.

    my thought process was as follows:
    Can hero's single target be buffed to be better than say pally?->No, class identity, if u make heroes outsingledpm pally then whats the use of pally yadayada
    Can hero's single target be buffed to better than say NL-> Defo no, i dont even need to give reasons to it.

    With these restrictions, what can make heroes more desirable in say 6man HT? A desirable party buff of cos.

    PB yes, HT no. there are already squads that dun apple at all for 6man.

    Will any of these changes make heroes more desirable for PB? No. PB is afterall a single target boss. unless it suddenly behaves like jiaoceng. LOL
     
  18. Magen
    Offline

    Magen Selkie Jr.

    202
    51
    205
    Mar 31, 2020
    Male
    1:27 PM
    bishopmage
    Cleric
    55
    active
    no class in-game can be as strong as NL. its not all about the damage, its about the chances to hit without restrictions. with 30% skill avoid, about 700 to 900 avoid in end-game, and 12.5mins (and not 10mins of apple or gelt), no one can be stronger than NL. ofc if u check dpm on dummys then yeah sair can be stronger than NL but thats "on paper" and in-boss gaming, sair need to handle so many things that nightlord do not.
    so even if they implement these buffs on hero, nightlord will still be stronger. for nightlords, there will be no enough nerf to undermine them as the best class in maplelegends - nothing to worry about.
    the game has became more and more maplerange and its now even more and more maplelord.
    for me, watching streams or play with -only- nightlords just make the game boring, for real, everyone realized that NL is the best class, the most braindead and go over it GG.
    thats why +5 concerto is worth about 300~400m and +5 craven is 1b.
    now enough talk about nightlord, i think my point can not be more clear.
    about paladin class -
    I'm on the side that thinks paly should be buffed, don't get me wrong but comparing between hero and paladin is just not fair.
    once nt part2 will be implement here, the comparation between these 2 classes will be over; and hero will be an historical class (maybe then staff will do something about it but who knows..)
    paladin had the skill to break bosses cancels but to avoid ppl to mule a paly for it, its just not exist in maplelegends, and also because of some ppl who made an HH mules, they also nerf their HH skill. im not going to talk about how to buff pally but just common sense, if you nerf some class that much, buff them in some other way. (same with NL and stars nerf).
    after that's been said-
    we should also consider paladin as a class with the utility to charge any kind of "power"- to get advantage on bosses, most kind is NT bosses where he can pin and do the most damage - thats the real identity of paladin.
    true story - one time I did content with lv170~ ish paly with lv80 sword and he still could knock-back nameless easily, that's how strong is paly on the right areas, and that's actually how it should be as again this is the real paladin identity.
    comparing hero to paly outside of NT or on no-weaknesses bosses and say they also MUST be better than hero in any kind of scenario of single target is just wrong in my point of view and also- boring cause that leaves hero completely useless and for now more then ever when HT returned to be only single target boss.

    one of the first things neckson did after big bang is make enrage hit on single target with better damage, they also realized you cant adjust any kind of content in-game to every class and say "hero is good for grind and only for it" is just like see something with an HUGE potential and throw it to the garbage for a meta reason.
    In my opinion - if you can make hero be less braindead and buff them for their gameplay style- that will be a huge benefit for all of us - the more useable classes we get, the more fun and
    diverse game we get.

    btw that's my opinion about the comparation between these 2 classes :
    upload_2021-10-29_15-50-29.png
     
  19. Cak33
    Offline

    Cak33 Headless Horseman

    819
    342
    371
    Oct 24, 2019
    Male
    7:27 PM
    NotCut3
    Hero
    172
    Active
    If it can be done, it will be done, and it MUST be done. Being hard is no barrel for the sweaty people in this server.
    Also food for thought: Some people does 3x NLs with 3x Triple Throw on a macro. Essentially a single player doing a 3-man char damage.

    \We alr have #1 in cleave damage, just revert HT to cleave-friendly meta, or introduce end-game bosses with end-game rewards that encourage cleaving.
     
  20. MELO
    Offline

    MELO Orange Mushroom

    34
    1
    38
    Oct 30, 2021
    Male
    7:27 PM
    MELO
    The hero's DPM is already very low. Now it is still being said that it feels as good as NL. But they dare not say that NL is not good and will only continue to say that other jobs are good. Because there are better reasons for this Jobs with low nerf dpm. This article will only cause sever's job to be more unbalanced. The person who wrote this article is not a person who knows balance.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1

Share This Page