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Feedback Prestigious Coin Feedback Thread

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Nise, Nov 2, 2021.

  1. Feeed
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    Feeed Mr. Anchor

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    I have an eKit, don't give me any ideas
     
  2. shck
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    shck Timer Retired Staff

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    Oh, maybe I didn't word that right. But it's mostly the same logic as your points system:
    X amount of Rare Tickets per runner that deals damage threshold(prevent muling) upon leaving map aft clear, number of tickets credited being dependent on the boss you're running.

    I feel like this should be relatively easy to balance, this being number of gained tickets from each boss being dependent on the average time take to run it.
    For example,
    PB - 10 tickets, 1ticket/10mins, +1 bonus for one clear a week
    HT - 5 tickets, 1ticket/24mins, twice a day, 7x a week. Total of 70 a week
    NT - 1 ticket for each boss clear, twice a day, 4bosses, 7x a week. Total of 56 a week
    Scar/Targa/Zakum/Krexel - 2 tickets, twice a day, 7x a week, Total of 28 a week
    Jiaoceng/Ravana/Pap/Capt. L - 1 ticket, twice a day, 7x a week, Total of 14 a week

    That makes:
    10 + 70 + 56 + 28(3) + 14(3) = 262 Rare gacha tickets a week.
    Number seems ridiculously high but that's assuming you did everything on this list everyday which takes a substantial amount of time. I may have missed some bosses though.
     
  3. shck
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    shck Timer Retired Staff

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    Could i get a link to your old post you mentioned?(im a sucker for reading suggestion posts) Also, regarding the portion in bold, I believe Gurk's initial post was suggesting each person had to deal a certain threshold of the boss HP to be able to obtain rewards, thereby not allowing people to bring in mules. Which is what I thought as well, rewards doesn't scale according to total damage dealt.
     
  4. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    That leads to the muling problem in bossing. 1234567 mules in boss runs LOL
     
  5. zeroxlr
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    zeroxlr Windraider

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    After reading through what everyone was saying...

    - drop rates for the coins are low.
    - total server drop rates for WS/CS flowing into the FM (gacha included) are not listed.

    Selling WS/CS with a set price (based on historically sold prices before inflation due to hoarders) to be sold in a NPC shop would directly control prices of WS/CS like the coins would intend to do.

    Also, buying WS/CS from NPCs will also benefit to SINK mesos.

    • Might as well be able to buy Prestigious Coins from NPCs at a set price of 12-13m each like everyone seems to agree on, and sink those mesos. This would also prevent the fluctuations of Prestigious Coins being sold in FM or Hoarded (again).


    Note:

    Maybe also make it so that people can trade in "Trash Boss Etc" to lower your own price rates of Prestigious Coins at the NPC Shop.

    - similar to Trading in etc for lowering prices of Magic Seeds.

    - Maybe start at 30m per Coin, then trading in Boss Etc to make it go down to 8m (just a possible idea to make bossing worth while and reduce hoarding of coins/ws/cs)
    - trash boss etc: Vergamot Oil Tank, Nibergen Reactor, Big Boss Flashlight, Magic Monster Claw, Zakum Diamond, Emperor Toad Wallet, Miniature Pianus, Ravana Doll, Lady Boss's Comb, Scarlion Boss's Foot, Targa's Foot....
    .
    .
     
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  6. Thuglifer
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    Thuglifer Capt. Latanica

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    https://forum.maplelegends.com/inde...r-white-scrolls-feedback-thread.41409/page-16
    i think what he's suggesting is foot pedal gameplay on mules that allows for muling coins (without any coin cap per boss) by hitting a min threshold to gain say '1 coin' and it'd be afk on the mule while gaining more on the main. mine doesn't since there's a cap per boss on coins reward, i.e. HT npc rewards 10 coins per round only and this is shared amongst all runners damage output, so no muling is encouraged. but again, i'd like to stress that jobs that deal lower dps output would suffer in rewards pool, even though we have bosses designed for single/ cleave jobs, the support jobs may get left in the dust. But again, my post was based on if coins were not exchangable scenario, and i'm under the impression that gurk is considering it to be tradeable and having no cap on coins per boss, which is 2 segment instead of 1.
     
  7. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Personal opinion, but I'd much rather have a system that allows me to work towards a specific goal instead of being given only a chance to raffle at my desired item. I'm not particularly fond of gacha in general and wish I could just exchange something like 200 common gach for a white scroll, so having bossing points turned into yet another farmed RNG event doesn't sound really appealing to me.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  8. Gurk
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    Gurk Nightshadow

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    Honestly, would that even be that much of an issue? Sweaty people who would make use of foot pedal "mules" can already do so now for multi-mage farming if they so choose and they'd make more money doing it too than trying to exploit the envisioned bossing points system. I put quotes around mule because these would have to be geared end game characters that can actually do damage and would have required a significant time investment (low level bosses wouldn't be worth the effort to employ such a strat as they wouldn't give that many points). I don't doubt that people with multiple end game characters would try, but with respect to meso making it wouldn't be any more degenerate than existing multi-mage farming.

    In any case, the damage thresholds can always be tailored to each boss so as to limit such muling while still accommodating the maximum number of people that would usually run such content together, i.e. 20% damage threshold for NT would limit the amount of characters that would be eligible for points to five (four in practice). If someone actually has four end game characters that can each do 20% or more damage to NT bosses, they're free to make use of foot pedal gameplay for all I'd care. Similarly, this could be ~15% for Zakum (the threshold at which only 6 characters at most could get points) and ~8% for HT (for 12-man runs).

    These numbers are just an example; thresholds could of course be made more generous to add some wiggle room for players that aren't as geared so that no one who is actively attacking who isn't just getting hard carried is left out. The drawback of having significantly higher thresholds however is that it may potentially exclude bishops (a workaround for bosses that aren't HT or Zak could be to just set the threshold for bishops specifically at 5% or so) and might also discourage larger groups from running (though such groups wouldn't be running for profit in the first place but rather for fun).

    On the upside, such a system would probably get me playing my shad again in HT where I already bring him as sed mule sometimes. Spending half the run attacking on archer and the other half on shad would certainly keep things interesting.
     
  9. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    i am not supporting the damage threshold idea. just let it be a drop, and the host sells the coins for mesos to be split amongst runners. <- this method is already working and requires less behind the scene revamps.
     
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  10. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Another thing - muling in larger bosses like Zak or Horntail would not even be meso-efficient for the most parts. Even without the 10% damage threshold, most people would not spend 2-3 mil in pots for 1/100th of a white scroll as they'd be running at deficit. The only bosses that would need some sort of check or adjustment are those you could safespot your mules. For lower level bosses like Papulatus and Ravana, I think muling is totally okay since the time it takes to move around your characters is inefficient enough in comparison and the payout in points is minimal enough that most people would not 'abuse' it, imo.

    Another thing of the bossing points system that I liked was that it required you to at least be leeching levels to gain the points, so Pink Bean muling wouldn't make as much sense since you could probably run your mule as an attacker in another run instead. Might become an issue if 18 mans start becoming the norm and a bunch of people have lvl 190+ mages that could just afk in Pink Bean, but the kicker is that people who are farming white scrolls are actually contributing to increase of white scroll supply which is the underlying premise of this thread and the prestigious coin system.

    People always complain about players with multiple end-game accounts as having an advantage over newer players. I always get confused by this line of logic. If older, more progressed players do not have an advantage over others who have accomplished less, what exactly is the point of playing this game?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Specialized high avoid mules (like shad/NL sed mules) would still be viable in HT/Zak for the most part, as the pot cost would be minimal.

    Personally I think damage threshold as a mechanic is bad regardless because it overly punishes some players / classes. Instead, I would prefer to see an implementation where killing a boss gives X points, and those points are equally split among the expedition members (hence, more members = lower points for each member). Whether this is done automatically on leaving the boss or as a loot of some sorts doesn't matter that much.
     
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  12. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    It's already well on its way to being the norm. :cool:

    #JusticeForRightBird
    #NerfNL
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Main downside to this is that it continues to favor minimal compositions (6 mans vs 12 mans).
    My intention with the bossing points suggestion was to create larger incentives for suboptimal play so that players had the option to break out of the conventional mold of 6-man/optimal bossing comps. If the bossing points system for the anniversary event followed your structure, sure, it might have been a little more balanced and 'fair', but I would not have enjoyed it nearly as much. I met a ton of people from those whacky 30+ man scarga runs, and for a brief moment, the game felt fresh again.
     
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  14. halfwaysleet
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    halfwaysleet Master Chronos

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    Moving mules isn't necessarily hard, people can always use vip rocks. The nx they'll use won't be tied to their main account. There's also the fact that people can always station their mules near bossing areas, such as horntail cave, deep inside of watch tower, door to zak, etc.

    The problem is not more progressed players having an advantage, it's muling becoming the optimal meta. This has become the norm in servers such as royals, and it gates new bossers from being able to find a expedition to run with.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    If someone is spending however much time to make an avoid mule to bring to Horntail daily, more power to them. I don't see someone muling multiple accounts for 1/100th of a white scroll as all that gamebreaking. People with one account should be satisfied with whatever bonus they're getting from bossing points instead of looking at degenerates and then getting butthurt that their own production isn't as good. The same is true for multimaging and non-magers complaining they have too much of an advantage.
     
  16. Toon
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    Toon Capt. Latanica

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    After the annoucement of the prestigious coins i made two post regarding them and i want to discuss some points again here along new syntesys that came to my mind reading everyone's comments.

    Problems regarding the implementation of Prestigious Coins and some other suggestions on the topic:

    - Prestigious Coin gonna be a tax free currency but even more convenient than ws/cs as you gonna be able to buy mostly every item with Prestigious Coins. The fact that there is a 5m tax to convert them into ws/cs doesn't make it way better because only the person who is going to scroll with them gonna pay that tax. If the system gets implemented the way it’s proposed, i see most of the market gated to Prestigious Coins pricing. Exemple, S> mw 20 21 Prestigious Coins. Nowadays, WS/CS are already tax free currency’s and this is totally linked to it’s hoarding and speculative nature. However, people mostly avoid tax using them to buy very expensive items. In this sense, Prestigious Coins open a new field of tax avoidance for even small purchases. Further, incentivizing tax free trades may devalue mesos even more.
    - Prestigious Coin current rate don't change boss splits by much and neither supply a reasonable amount of godly scrolls to the market. Personally, i don't think its possible to apply a rate which would make bossing compable to leeching/multimage farming without considering exp gainned by bossing as 4m exp=1m mesos. The rate would have to be OP and would change completly the server identity, so i'm not in favor of this. For sure, we need the rework of the current rates to make bosses that take more effort like HT more coin rewarding, and the release of the Cs coin would raise a bit splits too, but still not by much. In this sense, to make bossing a reasonable way to progress in the game is not enough to only release prestigious coins/cs coins. It's necessary to raise meso value in comparison to white scroll/cs. How to do that? Meso sinks: gachapon for meso, teleport rocks, tax of prestigious coins like i suggested here, godly scroll for mesos, safety charms for meso. Not saying all of them have to be added, but they are just examples of good meso sinks that have been discussed lately. Especifically, taxing prestigious coins directly would end ws tax free trades and that would bring ws value closer to it's utility price. However, i recognize that coin taxing wouldn’t be intuive. Therefore, i believe gachapon for meso would also be a really good sink as it also increase the n of avaiable godly scrolls, despite of not ending tax avoidance of ws/cs trades.
    - A point system that would take total pull of points/n of players on the map would be a good way to avoid adding a new drop into the game and change ws system. However, Nise pointed that this would have to be coded from scratch. Looks like staff don't want to shift prestigious coins into something else, so i'm trying to stick to ideas on how to make thier proposal better for the comunity. Althogh, i think that would be a good call to shift prestigious coins to boss point system equally distributed among players on expedition, alongside an introdution of a good meso sink or a way to stop making ws/cs tax free currencys.
    - Im skeptical that another coin for chaos scroll is not necessary. Gatting both scroll prices is only good for the people who are trading ws for cs + 30m. Another coin drop could help to raise boss splits if it's combined to prestigious coins and the trades could be made from the same npc, being a system as intuitive as prestigious coins system.

    At last, i'd like to point that one of the most important bossing buff is making meso more valuable in comparisson to godly scrolls and this means not letting them continue being tax free currencys, alongside the addition of meso sinks. Akash suggestion on bosses dropping gacha would also be a really good change to bring along the coins and sinks as it doesn't add much liquid meso into the economy and raise EV from bossing kills (raise the n of godly scrolls too).
    What i feel from this discussion is that people want a system that solve all the problem at once. I think the coins can be the beggining of the change but for sure new solutions have to come aside. The coins alone are a really bad solution imo. I'd just wanted to ask staff to be more promptly on this because i think the game is, more than ever, unfriendly with people on midgame. I dont feel like i'd ever had farmed what i farmed last year to pay 220m ea ws instead of 150-180 that i already felt high back then.
     
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  17. Gurk
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    Gurk Nightshadow

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    For the record, I don't think most people were suggesting the boss points idea as a replacement or alternative to the prestigious coin system; the former would obviously do nothing with regards to WS hoarding.

    That being said, for the sake of simplicity the two could certainly be meshed together if the system is made to be more granular as suggested before and prestigious coins were guaranteed drops that drop as a stack of several coins instead of just one.
     
  18. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    The latter would obviously do nothing with regards to WS hoarding as well. I had thought we went down a similar road for NT coins being too mule-able in another forum? and now the conversation is veering towards the same direction -> making such coins mule-able (although with a damage cap)?
     
  19. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    Yes, agreed. the advantage of muling is already present (substantial anot depends on your PC specs and decision-making) and shouldnt be further enhanced.
     
  20. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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