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Adjust Pouch 5 Reward Range

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by -ovv, Mar 12, 2022.

  1. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Remember this Venn Diagram?
    [​IMG]

    The above overlap shows the issue in which gach hoarding causes irregular intervals in market supply for those who have lots of gach and are trying to sell their White Scrolls/Chaos Scrolls.

    However, since that thread, we've now been introduced to untradeable WS/CS, and trading for ws/cs requires additional steps. This new process of converting WS from gacha into pouch 5 into coins seems extremely convoluted and non-sensical to me.

    Look at below:
    upload_2022-3-12_10-47-3.png

    The blue space is indicated by people like this:
    upload_2022-3-12_10-51-7.png

    WS/CS generated by non-ws/cs hoarders and non-gach hoarders are now facing the conundrum of a superstitious market that is opposed to purchasing just single scroll service, whereas in the past, a user could have just bought a white scroll and kept it until they accumulated more.

    Although White Scrolls are worth in utility value 100 prestigious coins and 10m, sellers that enter the market cannot sell their goods at even 90% of their value to other players. Because of this, they are forced to just convert into Pouch 5 and sell coins in the market, thus further squeezing the total supply of prestigious coins.

    The current format of non-tradeable ws/cs is directly feeding into a supply sink of overall prestige coins, meaning costs will rise even if demand stays the same. As we have a general population that is constantly moving closer and closer to end-game, it can be expected that demand will only continue to rise, not stay the same.

    Superstitious buyers/unwillingness to buy single-uses of white scrolls only further incentivizes the practice of gach hoarding. A seller with multiple white scrolls will have a better chance of selling white scroll service to other players at a reasonable rate while those trying to sell one scroll will have difficulty. This will lead to not just gach hoarding but also white scroll hoarding altogether. Why sell singular white scroll service for 90% of its utility value when you can sell white scroll service for 120% of its estimated value?

    My questions:
    • What exactly did making ws/cs untradeable accomplish? If it was to discourage hoarding, it's actually doing the exact opposite and further incentivizing it. If it was to encourage selling ws/cs, not a single thing that had been implemented has really facilitated for this.
    • Why is pouch 5's conversion rate set at a negative? At best, you're losing 10 mil in value. At worst, you're losing 20%+10m of your value. Honestly, I'm shocked people seem to be converting to Pouch 5 anyways and taking the loss up front, but there should be way more pushback against this conversion because it is directly contributing to the uptrend of coin cost.
    My suggestion:
    • Readjust Pouch 5 reward rate to be 95-110. This will give players with white scrolls a small incentive to convert their scrolls into pouches. Do you hoard and sell service, or do you convert into coins for a 66% chance of profit? This will also slightly increase the overall supply of Prestigious Coins in the market, thus meeting the perpetually upward sloping demand curve of the server.
    I thought of maybe just having ws/cs conversion be its own thing for a Pouch 6 that gives 100 coins flat, but I think there needs to be a bit of uncertainty to make things interesting.
     
    • Agree x 18
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  2. Trion
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    Trion Capt. Latanica

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    Or maybe something like 92-105 if people think you were being too generous. I think people who take the lost up front are just making up the difference from the coins they get at Pap and rav so it doesnt "feel" as bad. Still an interesting idea to kick around.
     
  3. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    It's a system where almost everyone loses. When I hear that someone is selling a single WS service, I don't think I can trust them not to ruin my gear, and it's likely by someone who is unable to cover the cost of screwing up, all to get an extra ~14mil of value out of their legendary pull. It's convoluted and it just has a negative effect on the server, but it can be done away with by just making WS/CS tradeable again but keeping the 100 coin exchange in. There's still a WS production meso tax from bossing, but it doesn't have loads of folks trying to game the system by selling services and ruining +6 BWGs out of nowhere or folks accidentally using their scrolls because they can't store them anywhere safe.

    Overall, I think coins are a net benefit to the server, but restricting WS and CS has created a confusing system that I really don't think needs to be in place.

    Bonus fanart:
    [​IMG]
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 4
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  4. Trion
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    Trion Capt. Latanica

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    Yeah I kind of miss having my WS at least in my bank storage or something
     
  5. Signature
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    Signature Stone Golem

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    TFW you're the example of a poor person.

    [​IMG]

    All g Dan already asked for permission tonguemush

    Jokes aside love the suggestions!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Kyshies
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    Kyshies Slimy

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    Has anyone screwed up selling ws service and fuked up items as a result? What happens then?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    It has certainly happened before. The set of people willing to sell single ws service are typically poor people who cannot provide collateral for the value of the item they are scrolling. If something were to go wrong, its highly likely the service buyer would simply have to just eat the loss, as there is probably no way to extract billions out of the seller. For this reason, most wealthy players avoid buying single ws service.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
  8. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    The fanart is in fact an accurate representation of something that has happened :^)

    RIP +6 mage BWG

    edit: It's a very fun screenshot
    [​IMG]
     
  9. yurain
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    yurain Windraider

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    LOL. Why not just reduce WS supply by 10% while we are having a supply crunch, it all makes so much sense.

    The ws/cs gacha rate should be buffed by 10% to compensate for the avg 90 coin conversion to a pouch 5.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Kirep
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    Kirep Mano

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    How about making ws/cs from gachapons tradeable, however ones from crafting untradeable? I think maybe this can make it so people don't hoard coins anymore, but hoard tradeable whitescrolls, and people that want to perf equips will buy coins instead, possibly for cheaper. Make it so you can turn ws/cs from gachapons into coins for a possible net profit, and coins can only trade for untradeable ws/cs. While untradeable ws/cs cannot be turned back into coins.
     
  11. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    good idea. but probably nerf the pouch 5 drop rate as well to compensate.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Thuglifer
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    Thuglifer Capt. Latanica

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    +1, but however since this post doesn't mention changing the droprate of pouch 5 (PinkBean), I can't agree... furthermore, the gap of 20 from 80-100 would be reduced to 15 from 95-110, which is another buff by having better avg and on top of the new 110 cap, double buff if you would call it... I'd rather retain the 20 gap (90-110) and have the 110 cap.
    Like what you said, 'interesting'.

    Also rather than a drastic change such as changing the values of pouch 5, maybe a small step that's better suited such as the above.

    Now you got me curious on how many % of player based are actually superstitious?
     
  13. Signature
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    Signature Stone Golem

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    Seems kinda weird to react with disagree just because you don't like a hypothetical detail within the implementation. This could be fixed by introducing a new pouch (6) with the proposed coin distribution and save pouch 5 with current values to PB.

    Adding a 10% buff doesn't help the target audience in this, since ws for a poor person is still worth 90 coins and for a rich person is worth ~95 coins (or whatever rate of service), it just means there will be a higher amount of WS in circulation. Due to the WS being untradeable this doesn't help the individual WS holder.
     
  14. Thuglifer
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    Thuglifer Capt. Latanica

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    think i clearly stated why i disagreed but ok

    well idk the author mentioned one of the main issue was superstitious, having 1 ws on 1 newcomer as a turn off towards buyers. yurain suggestion would boost their odds of having more ws on hand and hence potentially more buyers.
     
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    Signature Stone Golem

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    Unless you are boosting it with crazy amounts it doesn't matter to the individual, a 10% increase would mean I have 1.1ws rather than 1. When trying to sell a WS the lowest amount of WS bulk a buyer would be willing to buy was 5.
     
  16. Thuglifer
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    Thuglifer Capt. Latanica

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    does matter to an individual, you mean you or you're speaking for the playerbase? again, 5, where did the number come from? a made up number? You're taking 10% as at face value where you shouldn't afterall it's well know this mushroom game is based on RNG and not solely %.
     
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    Signature Stone Golem

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    It's coming from the fact that I'm literally the person in OP's picture and I've been trying to sell the WS during the past 2 weeks aswell as looking at Smegas/Buying posts for WS's services.

    What are you talking about? It's like saying the scroll % doesnt matter cause its all RNG or am I understanding you right?
     
  18. Thuglifer
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    Thuglifer Capt. Latanica

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    yea, so you, prob best not to sound as if it's the general poulation ya. kinda misleading
    nope, don't confuse what i said, of course % matters.
     
  19. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    So many I keep forgetting
    0
    what?
     
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  20. OP
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    -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Bumping this thread because I realized that this system could possibly turn into a huge meso sink/perpetual Pog Coin machine/Pog Coin NPC in the form of a Pog Coin casino.

    In my proposed system, if someone receives a White Scroll, they can convert it into Pouch 5 for no cost, open it for 95-110 coins, and then convert the prestigious coins back into a White Scroll for 10m.

    For 10m, anybody can play the gamble - White Scroll into Pouch 5 into Prestigious Coins.
    • 95-100 coins - you lose 0-5 coins and 10m cost to play
    • 101-110 coins - You gain 1-10 coins at the cost of 10m
    In the current market of coins at 2.6m/ea, you'd profit or be above break-even whenever you roll 104 coins or higher. That's 7/15 chance or slightly under 50%.

    As coins grow more expensive, the break-even gets even lower, making the game more valuable as a means of increasing value.

    However, 10m is being taken out of the server every time someone plays the game.
     
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