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Consider removing attack on air limitations for more skills

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Toon, Mar 26, 2022.

  1. Toon
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    Toon Capt. Latanica

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    I believe that allowing more classes to attack in the air may bring many positive aspects of legends overall gameplay.

    Context: the class that most benefits from attacking in the air nowadays is NLs, despite warriors being able to do too and a couple skills for other classes like Pierce Arrow and Flash Fist. With this suggestion we can bring fun new ways to play non NL classes. Wasn’t it pog the new possibilities to gameplay that allowing Pierce Arrow to be shoot in air brought? Imagine that with more skills in game.

    Advantages:

    1. New ways of grinding with non mage classes
    2. An open field of reposition after getting KBed on low avoid classes like archers/pirates.
    3. More fun gameplay for non NL classes
    4. New possibilities of damage distribution on bosses like HT for the benefited classes
    5. Fixes how terrible it is to attack with some classes in Aqua while floating and after getting KBed at NTPT2 (Balance in comparison to NLs).

    Possible concerns:

    1. Some skills may not look good cast on air so they shouldn’t be added to the list.
    2. Some skills can be too OP with this like Ultimates, so they definitely shouldn’t be added.
    3. Personally, i think that it won’t bring class unbalance, but we may have to keep our eyes on this.

    Skills that i first considered:

    Strafe
    Dragon Breath
    Arrow Rain
    Arrow Eruption
    Chain Light
    Paralyze
    Hurricane
    Angel Ray
    Dragon Strike
    Snatch
    Demolition
    Rapid Fire

    Now i’m talking about specifically about Strafe, Dragon Breath, Hurricane and Arrow Eruption. I invite any of you to comment about what this chance could bring for your class.

    1. Strafe and MM against high jump:

    When MMs want to use jump attack forward to bring more diversity for their gameplay, they have to keep their jump low. Jump attacking on high jump Mm means you gonna stay too long in the air not being able to cast another attack before landing on the ground. This way high jump heavily punishes MM. In my case for example, i chose to lose 16 stats from both events rings not have high jump on bosses that require jump attacking like HT. The removal of this limitation, may let MMs diversify their gameplay without haste/gear restriction.

    2. Hurricane:

    After getting KBed on Auf Haven map, BMs simply can’t attack because they have to wait getting back on the floor after floating. Royals fixed it for Auf map specifically. However, allowing this would fix this problem all along and overall gameplay at Aqua too.

    3. Dragon Breath:

    Most of the time, Dragon Breath is useless because you bow wack if you are too near the mob, which usually is the case when you want to cast this skill. Being able to be casted on air opens a new possibility of gameplay for this skill as you may reposition in the air to be able to cast it and it’s not OP like it would be if we let it be casted from close to mobs like rush.

    4. Arrow Rain/ Arrow Eruption:

    Better farming/mobbing possibilities for archer.

    At last, i hope this is considered aiming more classes diversity and fun gameplay. Please, let me know possible new good and bad aspects of this suggestion.
     
    • Agree x 13
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  2. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Zakum

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  3. OP
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    Toon
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    Toon Capt. Latanica

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    Can any gm fix tittle to in the air instead of on the air?
     
  4. lv1crook
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    lv1crook Capt. Latanica

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    Being grounded has always been part of bowman class identity. I don’t think that should be changed. Though I am not against the idea for some skills. Dragon breath could probably be changed seeing as you can use power knockback in the air. Hurricane should probably also be changed for auf in the future. I think strafe, AE and AR should remain grounded skills though.

    Other classes I’d be fine with attacking in air. Especially pirates since they can attack in air for previous jobs.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  5. Estrahl
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    Estrahl Mr. Anchor

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    Not that I disagree, but I thought the whole draw to assassins was the ability to jump and attack since they have no knockback skills? Like otherwise it wouldn't have made a difference. The only reason back then that they kept that feature on assassins was because haste would feel really clunky without it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  6. OP
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    Toon
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    Toon Capt. Latanica

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    It’s already possible to jump attack casting strafe, however just punishes high jump users. The proposal is just an addition to the current gameplay, not making people untag haste or not wear event rings. Also it brings more active gameplay to dodge attacks and reposition.

    i think this enters the same discussion as always: should we stick to the old vanilla maple or bring some changes to adapt the new times? Legends has proofed that there is much more than mindless attack and pot like we played back then on OG servers. I’d say archer class is built on using arrows, being supportive with SE. It doesn’t have to do with jump attacking or not. In the end, MMs already jump attack a lot. This implementation only brings more versatility for the current gameplay, diminishing the disparity between NL and other classes and adding fun to the game. NLs gonna persist with the best mobility because of flash jump. Also kb skills from bowmans are useless.
     
  7. Estrahl
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    Estrahl Mr. Anchor

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    I don't speak for Kimmy, but isn't it her goal even despite all the changes and updates to keep relatively close to old school? The clunky design of some classes is part of the design. GMS didn't have about 30% of the base stuff, but I assume the idea was a sort of mix of KMS, SEA, and GMS(sorry EMS).

    Maybe less animation lock like with Assaulter(but again that skill is a thief skill, all who are generally supposed to feel speedy and fluid) would be a better option? Again, I don't disagree, but I wonder if there are better options out there.
     
  8. OP
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    Toon
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    Toon Capt. Latanica

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    I dont think that removing this limitation changes the class design in a way that we don`t stay old school like. We already jump attack on archers, sairs and mages. However, we can do less than we could if there weren`t attack on air limitation. I kinda see this as a really small change. It`s not a massive skill rework. What better options can you think being less agressive on skill change? Also, other classes not having flash jump still maintains NLs as the ones with the best mobility
     
  9. zeroxlr
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    zeroxlr Windraider

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    Would be cool to be able to use:

    Jump + Three Snails

    Then it'd be like how thieves throw their stars!!
     
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  10. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Idk what kind of bowman identity you’re referring to, but what distinguished good archers in og GMS from pepega archers was the ability to jump double shot at Zombies to clear more ground.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. xiaoyaoz
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    xiaoyaoz Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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  12. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    Fully agree, the 'clunkiness' that comes from not being able to jumpshot is one of the things that deters me from making archers :^)
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  13. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    airborne school for rangers. :laugh:
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
  14. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    The dash that comes out after an assassinate would be a great candidate to remove the grounded requirement from. Shadowers highest single target dpm without meso explosion comes from spamming assassinate + dash but if you try to use the dash while in the air after getting knocked back it will fail causing the already clunky dark sight + nate macro to feel even clunkier. This happens alot since even at late game you'll likely have around 25-35% chance of getting hit (not all hits will cancel your dash, depends on the timing).

    It would have to function similar to assaulter where you can cast it in the air as long as there is a surface to land on. The initial assassinate hit can remain grounded so it's not a huge change but a very nice one regardless.

    As for archer skills I'd have to agree with the people saying it's part of being an archer vs assassin. Doesn't the addition of facestompers already alleviate having high jump? Maybe we can get rid of (some) of the jump on event equips?
     
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  15. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    • Like Like x 1
  16. OP
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    Toon
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    Toon Capt. Latanica

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    Event equip gives 26 jump. 6 from pendant 10 from ea ring. I would be really happy if it’s not added anymore to event gear. However, the jump added benefits most people on the server. I believe that one of the reasons for that is making the game more fun like the speed on ropes for mounts.

    Considering, archer, mages and sair already jump attack. I believe people wanna play jump attacking. Like i said above, i don’t think being able to jump distinguish archer to NLs. Higher avoid, full dps and better mobility seems more what’s NL is about. While archers should be supportive dps with low avoid and with better mobbing than NL. Being able to cast skills in the air actually makes archer mobbing skills better and brings it closer to it’s mobbing identity.

    At last, we have the infamous Hurricane not working while floating problem. Here is a video of MapleRoyals where you can see the Bm not being able to attack after knock back.
    https://youtu.be/IvZHd21llR0
     
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  17. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Paxill
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    Paxill Mushmom

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    At this point I'd argue that NL's ability to attack in the air is a component of their class identity and encroaching on that design space would be restricting class diversity (how are the classes diverse if they all play the same?). In addition, air hurricane, rapid fire, dragon strike, and arrow eruption would not make sense based on their skill descriptions and how their animations look.

    On the flip side, I don't understand why you would intentionally choose to not include battleship cannon and battleship torpedo in your list of skills considering every other available cast from battleship (ice splitter, flamethrower, grenade) can all be cast from air and corsair's boat is arguably not grounded when on the ground, cuz... ya know... it floats on the air.

    I approve of the potential ntp2 fixes, but that's not in the server yet so idk why it's even being mentioned here.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  19. TennGohan
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    TennGohan Mushmom

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    I love this idea. Legends is already so different from GMS and I think the devs have already moved away from the whole nostalgia argument in favor of making the game better/more enjoyable. With most of the server being end game players this will bring a nice change to some classes allowing players to discover new strategies.

    Would be fun to nate in the air, along with a flying dash lol. Not sure if it would be too helpful tho.
     
  20. Lucidcat
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    Lucidcat Mixed Golem

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    The hero you're looking for... login-img-raceselect_new-back0-5-0_new.png
     
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