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The life of a lemon - Are we doomed or doomed?

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by lemonpasta, Apr 9, 2022.

  1. lemonpasta
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    lemonpasta Horny Mushroom

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    6:32 PM
    lemonravioli
    F/P Arch Mage, Bishop, Corsair
    This is written from the perspective of a late game player and one that is concerned with the state of the economy (like everyone else is) MapleF4


    The prices of big ticket items will skyrocket every single day.

    More merchants will jump on board to monopolize the scrolls/sbs markets.

    Strategic older players with the first-mover advantage will continue to compound on their gains.

    So what is there in it for us (loyal and struggling players)?

    OnionF2We love MapleLegends :heartbeat: Thanks GMs for working hard for us, the community!

    There will be an ever growing demand for big ticket items as long as there are players who want to progress.

    The supply of big ticket items will always dwindle due to hoarding, usage and slow generation of them.

    Previously provided suggestions:


    • Limiting a daily/weekly/monthly transactional mesos value - forcefully encouraging barter trades. Ensure demands for items met by both parties, making it difficult to find willing buyers. Indirectly encouraging prestigious coin farming.
    • Tier tax rates for mesos trade, the higher the mesos trade the higher the tax rates.

    Prestigious coin generation is currently limited to gaching and bossing.

    Gaching - Throughout the game
    Bossing - From mid game to end game

    This means low level players stand a lower chance of obtaining prestigious coins.

    • Introduce prestigious coins raffle to PQs to incentivise newer players and older players to join the PQ community (?). Obtain 2-3 unique (traded with NPC) PQ items for a chance to raffle for prestigious coin pouches.
    • GM events: Prestigious coins giveaway at GM events
    • Community events: 10 Random boxes in random maps with a 10%-20% chance of getting a prestigious coin pouch.

    Common suggestions against mage farming or leeching:
    • Nerf Mage Aoe, nerf drop rates for multi mage farming, remove safe spot, discourage multi-clienting (?!?!?)

    Previously provided suggestions:

    • Buff Aoe on non-mage players
    • Larger meso pouches drop at boss runs (in millions)
    • Edit: Increase prestigious coin drop rates in a way that can also manage the exploitation of boss runs by advantageous late/end game players
    • Diamonds similar to Zakum Diamonds to drop randomly for all bosses

    Promote single/independent player content

    Introduce a class-focused scroll merchant that allows trades.

    • Trade a 30% warrior scroll + 500k mesos for a random warrior 30% scroll.
    • Trade a 60% magician scroll + 500k mesos for a random magician 60% scroll.

    Value of mesos is arbitrary


    Thanks for reading!
    Sorry for the poorly justified suggestions and maybe contradictory suggestions, will continue to brain and make edits!

    Shoutout to xiaoyaoz for always disagreeing and having long discussions with me, Jyennie for sharing your pain points of being an end-game player, Mageor for some inspiration and Ora for being in Pasta MapleF14
     
    • Great Work x 18
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  2. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    It would be nice to try to counter inflation by either slowing the production of mesos or increasing the number of meso sinks, maybe even both.

    There's been level-based exp rates before, so there's potential that it could be introduced as a permanent modifier to meso rates for higher level players. Let's say that at level 120+ everyone's meso rate is .5x rather than 1x. It would probably cut down on somewhere between 10 and 30% of the mesos entering the server, all without hampering the ability of new players to afford potions and gear.
     
  3. shck
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    shck Timer Retired Staff

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    6:32 PM
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    I think you hit the nail on this point - as long as there are players who want to progress.

    Personal opinion, may be controversial and probably unpopular among most late game players.
    People are overpaying for chaos-ed attacker gears.
    My take on this - Removing Chaos scrolls from prestigious coins exchange and increase the supply of these scrolls - gachapon rates, bossing. Make chaos scrolls more obtainable, decrease the rarity of chaos-ed ATT gears, hence decreasing valuation of these "big ticket items".

    In spite of what I or anyone else thinks, I hope we can agree on one thing; White Scrolls and Chaos Scrolls are quintessential resources in the production of big ticket items, in their own right. Both of them being tied to the same form of exchange that is Prestigious coins, makes it's only counterpart currency on the server, which is mesos, way less desired while these coins remain collectible regardless of each person's actual need/use for them. The imminent future - hyperinflation.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
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  4. AndrewMapler
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    AndrewMapler Mano

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    Mage meso farming exists because it’s the only time effective way to obtain enough mesos for a WS/CS. If implemented naively, your suggestion is not likely to change the meta of mage farming. Yes less mesos will lead to lower prices, but the amount of in game effort required to obtain a WS/CS will be exactly the same & your options to produce enough mesos to obtain the WS/CS are exactly the same. Mage farming wouldn’t go away and everyone would be just as frustrated before the sink/nerf was introduced.

    What’s needed is a buff to the supply side of WS/CS or P coins. My preference would be that this buff introduces a means of obtaining enough resources for a WS/CS that is effectively on par with mage farming. If you have an alternative way to obtain WS/CS that takes about as much in game effort as multi-maging, lots of people will stop multi-maging and the mesos produced from multi-maging will go away, curbing inflation. People don’t mage farm because they enjoy it - they mage farm because it’s the only rational choice given todays supply & demand of P coins.

    The biggest issue I see with my suggestion is that it discounts the amount of effort that people have put in to achieve their multi-mage setups. Unfortunately, I don’t see a way to preserve that effort while also hamstringing multi-maging’s effect on the economy.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Thuglifer
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    Thuglifer Capt. Latanica

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    this is like a summary of multiple past suggestions, so what's new?
     
  6. AndrewMapler
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    AndrewMapler Mano

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    The realization that we're all doomed, I believe.

    OnionConfused
     
  7. Eleza
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    Eleza Mano

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    I'm new to the game, so my knowledge of the market and meso inflation isn't really to a lot of people's levels, but this line right here will cause more inflation rather than lower it. With the coin drop, you are selling it to other people with the already existing meso pool in the community. If you remove it and add more mesos, you are adding more meso to the community pool while simultaneously lowering the amount of prestige coins on the market; thus causing inflation. If the goal is to raise taxes, this is counter intuitive.

    If you print more money, this causes hyperinflation, causing values to go up.
     
  8. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    I'd rather keep the inflation than have a server flooded with perfect gear. If methods to compete with multimage were added without the associated costs it would quickly add years to the age of the server.

    It's also incorrect to even assume anything about my suggestion relates to multimage - as I recognize the level of damage done by uncapped Ulu 2 and Skeles farmers have likely done significantly more damage in causing inflation by how accessible they are. Multimage are likely just a boogeyman for people who vastly underestimate the levels of mesos within the server. If there's ever an economic impact post done by Geospiza, I hope it includes some of those figures.

    It's also strange to think that people only multimage because they have to in order to afford Prestigious Coins. Just talking to some of them would indicate that some of them find it amusing or chill, something to watch TV while doing. I also don't even consider it to be the only effective means of obtaining coins, I'm WSing a gun currently and under 10% of my playtime is on a bishop at skeles self-leeching. There's plenty of money to be made outside of playing mages, it's getting hard not to laugh when folks say it's the only way.
     
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  9. OP
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    lemonpasta
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    lemonpasta Horny Mushroom

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    lemonravioli
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    From my observations, the mesos drop from mobs is not a major cause of the unhealthy levels of inflation we are experiencing right now. Mesos from farming are gained primarily through npc-ing items or merchandising them. To nerf npc prices of items is too far of a stretch.

    Anyway, it is only fair for players to expect more experience/mesos gain as they progress to higher levels. The correlation coefficient between experience/mesos gain and level/power/skills must remain at a somewhat consistent level to retain players.

    I agree that too many players are overpaying for gears that have been chaos-ed.

    Most definitely, the willingness to pay among players is a major cause of the inflation we are experiencing right now.

    I believe when the prestigious coins system was initially introduced, the value of the coins was estimated and pegged to the value of the chaos scrolls.

    As more time passes, we begin to see the value of the coins come close to the value of the white scrolls, thus increasing the value of the chaos scrolls, which caused gears that have been chaos-ed seem more attractive. So long as the ws/cs prestigious coins system remains, the controversial debate between the value of the chaos scroll vs white scroll is here to stay.

    I like to put out a disclaimer at this point, I do not agree with all the previously provided suggestions especially those I summarised under point 3. I believe sweaty players who put in the effort to multi-mage farm are entitled to their share of gains and nerfing the mage aoe will only destroy many metas and bossing strategies in the game. The ToT strategy is only one of the many mesos farming strategy in the game. Also, there's no limits to what MapleLegends players are capable of if they have their mind set on something, it won't take long before we/they will find another mesos making strategy if/once ToT gets nerfed.

    Another disclaimer, I have listed the suggestions in order of priority and have suggested them together to balance them out.

    Any change to the production of mesos must be met with another change to the supply of items. These are market forces.

    If you look at this on its own, it is true, more production of mesos will lead to inflation and worse, hyperinflation. So back to point 2, the supply of big ticket items must grow at a slightly faster rate than the production of mesos to keep inflation at a healthy level.
     
  10. Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    Make CS drop from Drummer Bunnies, Cold Eyes, Cube Slimes! Like on GMS back in the day!
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  11. zeroxlr
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    zeroxlr Windraider

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    What!? Really!? It’d probably be best to make a separate suggestion for this idea. I’d vote for that LOL
     
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  12. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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  13. Jean Justen
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    Jean Justen Mushmom

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    Damn. I don't even know what to write or suggest. Been away from the game for a while. Quit when WS was 120m, it was already a lot for me (trying to perfect my weapon 5/7 slots). Now, i came back and when my friend told me the WS/CS pieces, my will to play immediately vanished.

    I know i have a lot to level and more thinhgs to do but it seems now that if you didn't made your perfect weapon years ago, you're pretty much stucked with what you got now. I lose money grinding at 7f and i barely make some at ToT. Have a bish but even if i sell 5 hours/day of skele 1 hit, that would take me a looong time.

    I know my post is not important, and i don't think we should have a server flooded with perfect weapons but its a funny perspective: With a few billions i could buy a perfect weapon some years ago. Now i gotta spend 3B (1/10 chance) to pass 1 slot. Its crazy. I love grinding but this is too much and i don't think there is a game where getting a perfect endgame weapon is as bad as it is in ML.

    How's bossing rn? Can zakum with 1 buyer provide me money or i'll burn mesos on pots? HT?

    Guess i'll come back in a few years to see if the situation improved.
     
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  14. MonkM
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    MonkM Snail

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    This is spot on. It has been said a few times already in this thread but here it is again. Inflation occurs when too much money is chasing too few goods. For prices to come down we need the supply of highly desired items to increase faster than the volume of mesos increases. If inflation is occurring across the economy, there are ways to create meso sinks targeting players where large volumes of cash are built up. However, if the inflation is just on a few key items (CS/WS/P. Coins) the solution may be easier to enact from the supply side.

    Prestigious coin exchange system was, I think, a great attempt to address both sides of this, though it does unfortunately directly link the price of WS and CS.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. OP
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    lemonpasta
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    lemonpasta Horny Mushroom

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    lemonravioli
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    Many players have suggested introducing mesos sinks to penalize Elite players (strategic/sweaty players or players with high purchasing power).

    I think meso sinks is always an easy solution to manage the oversupply of mesos but I do not agree that players should be penalized for being loyal to the game or being strategic in the way they earn mesos.

    At the end of the day they are the ones who circulate mesos in the economy and challenge other players to be just like them. Sometimes they even share information to help everyone else gain an equal advantage. I see the good in them.

    Anyway, everyone gets penalized when they get penalized. Penalizing them by penalizing everyone is not a long term solution.

    Managing the supply side of items should be the "long term" solution.

    In a perfect world, we want non-elite players to circulate items in the economy in exchange for some purchasing power or have a chance to get their hands on items they need.

    We want to help them gain information too.

    At the same time they should not bear the shorter end of the stick because of mesos sink when everyone gets penalized.
     
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  16. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Coin pouch casino
     
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  17. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    have you heard of the pasta bank?
    upload_2022-4-17_2-40-20.png
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  18. OP
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    lemonpasta
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    lemonpasta Horny Mushroom

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    *Tax Savings. It is not tax evasion if it is allowed.

    Tax savings from barter trades are just savings. Of course you guys have your other methods to save on tax.

    Good job Pasta guild for being collectively strategic. Here's a star :star:
     
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  19. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    npc that sells WS/CS
     
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  20. zeroxlr
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    zeroxlr Windraider

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    Also… the NPC price be a set meso price.
     

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