1. Hello!

    First of all, welcome to MapleLegends! You are currently viewing the forums as a guest, so you can only view the first post of every topic. We highly recommend registering so you can be part of our community.

    By registering to our forums you can introduce yourself and make your first friends, talk in the shoutbox, contribute, and much more!

    This process only takes a few minutes and you can always decide to lurk even after!

    - MapleLegends Administration-
  2. Experiencing disconnecting after inserting your login info? Make sure you are on the latest MapleLegends version. The current latest version is found by clicking here.
    Dismiss Notice

Shadower changes you’d want

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Thuglifer, Apr 11, 2022.

  1. Authoxic
    Offline

    Authoxic Red Snail

    8
    4
    26
    Dec 21, 2021
    Male
    9:25 AM
    Authoxic
    Thief
    18
    I personally feel that getting rid of the dark sight requirement for assassinate would make for smoother gameplay. With all the recent lag spikes, its been difficult to boss, since I either get stuck in dark sight or cant enter dark sight. There was a point where I gave up and just Boomerang Stepped the entire Papalatus run because of how bad the lag was affecting my ability to effectively use assassinate. Needless to say, that was torture. Thats just my 2 cents.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 2
  2. OP
    OP
    Thuglifer
    Offline

    Thuglifer Capt. Latanica

    340
    88
    273
    Sep 1, 2021
    Male
    10:25 PM
    Beginner
    I've yet to see this happening @ legends sadly, however it's been utilised on almost every zak run on the 3rd job server i play in. The scaling for ME could definitely be better improved if buffing PP alone is not gonna happen (i feel PP doesnt need to be buffed if it's lootable on cast, since it adds onto meso generation). This is maybe kinda tricky when considering a buff as we do have ME being used from 7x to 100 as a form of plvling, do we want to make it much easier or? Since the accuracy formula for ME does not consider dex str luk int and players would be able to bomb almost anything. With 4th job skills replacing most of 3rd jobs, do we really need ME? Since of course most players would rather use PP to bomb (lowers some dpm, most oftenly not worth using) than the classic 3rd job method of pre-dropping meso and bombing it during the run. Not to mention it is often necessary to cast DS and then perform meso drops to reduce the chances of getting hit around and having meso all over the floor, what then is an appropriate buff to risk players to go into DS and drop meso/skills and also we don't want to encourage 30k hp shads as more hp in ds is very advantageous. While ME does boosts dpm in the initial few seconds of the run, the moment the boss is summoned, dpm would naturally fall drastically due to repoisitioning, exiting ds for pot/ rebuffs, the downtime of dropping meso again. I do still feel it's fine to buff ME in some ways.

    One small joke we had was to increase the lines of ME, but that would quite possibly dc/crash the clients.
    1. ME to have a base Crit %. or
    2. Increase ME aoe range by 2 pixels on left and right, or 2x. or
    3. Apply SE on ME, with boosted dmg% bonus. or
    4. ME damage applies even on Weapon or Magic Cancel. or
    5. Bonus Damage on ME during Weapon or Magic Cancel. or
    6. ME damage applies even on Damage Reflect and/or No damage taken by caster of ME during Damage Reflect. or
    7. Bonus Damage on ME during Damage Reflect.

    Who knows maybe it could reduce some need for apples for the dps, faster run times, at the expense of some meso contributed, generating more inclusiveness for active shads.
    hmm I think it'd be better if we can first find out the pot costs on avg for shads in 7f fair, and maybe then we could see how much of a big impact the ds change would have for the grinding aspect, mobs do have magic skills that can inflict dmg while in ds but with the bstep stuns, maybe a lower stun rate could balance out and allow for more magic dmg instead of physical.
    Yea as mentioned above, this would be a nice change that would make it feasible for performing ds > bstep > nate. thanks for the cast timing btw
    I like this, tho i have my concerns about the coding aspect to have buffs placed on area of casting as compared to iframe that the typical smoke gives.
     
  3. flow
    Offline

    flow Slimy

    245
    102
    256
    Jan 18, 2021
    Male
    Brazil
    11:25 AM
    Lisnar, HolyFlow, Theorist
    Buccaneer
    166
    Funk
    I have some ideas too, if i can choose the preference:

    1º Remove dash from 4th hit.
    2º Assassinate with SE plis.
    3º Let us meso bomb while cancel WA and let we use it and assaulter on DS.
    4º Increase pickpocket drops, make it drops near the shadower (not inside the boss) and make it unlootable (maybe it can have a meso drop formula based on range/base luk?)
    5º Increase B.Step damage and something like 5~10% the cast speed (i know, we lost i-frames, but sometimes that skill feels so long idk)
    6º Increase meso guard duration from 120 seconds -> 180 seconds
    7º Decrease smokescreen CD to 4 minutes.
    Of course that's a lot of changes and all of then would make shads OP, but maybe one or another?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  4. Trion
    Offline

    Trion Capt. Latanica

    305
    77
    273
    Jul 23, 2019
    10:25 AM
    Trion
    Beginner
    1
    I personally think Shadowers are great where they are now as a "jack of all trades" type character. Smokescreen will always be tremendously powerful and a big part of their class identity along with the fact they do respectable DPS. Matter of fact I wouldn't mind seeing some changes revolving around boosting smokescreen in some way either with some type of reward to lower cooldown or doing some type of action for it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. flow
    Offline

    flow Slimy

    245
    102
    256
    Jan 18, 2021
    Male
    Brazil
    11:25 AM
    Lisnar, HolyFlow, Theorist
    Buccaneer
    166
    Funk
    You don't need a jack of all trades when you can bring another class who just smash the boss 50% harder lol.
    Oh, he can cleave and solo target! a jack of all trades!!
    1º The worst single target (Even heroes/drk got more).
    2º The worst cleaver (Even paladin gots more cleave).
    3º But he's tanky! (Any good player or a bad player well washed can survive almost everything)
    4º But he don't need SI/SE!! seems good in some scenarios, okay, but he still worse than warriors without it.
    5º Smoke's sweet, specially for corsairs (meta job), but the high CD and low duration make it just a cool buff, but nothing too special.

    All they got is a good grind, when the mages clearly domines the meta.
    i want to know where and who decides smoke is tremendously powerful lol, we deserve at least more cleave than a paladin, damage isn't everything, but the current state isn't aceptable, they deserve AT LEAST more damage than non-buffed classes when even in this scenario he's worse than they, i'm fine with no buffs because i didn't make it thinking about being the best decision, i just have fun with it, but he clearly deservers more.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  6. Trion
    Offline

    Trion Capt. Latanica

    305
    77
    273
    Jul 23, 2019
    10:25 AM
    Trion
    Beginner
    1
    That is actually also another great benefit of them. They are one of the best first characters to make for new players considering mesos guard and ease of leveling. That is part of the balancing reason why they don't excel in any one area. For Thieves the hyper specialist is Nightlords instead of Shads. You are obviously aware that you aren't the first person to bring this up. But Shadowers on the forums are not shy about asking to be more specialized once they level up super fast and realize they can't use it as #1 DPS character. Shads are always welcomed in my party because of smokescreen and thats fine because alot of jobs are only used for one thing.

    People have to stop looking at this game through a 2022 lens when it comes to jobs, this game was never intended to be balanced in any way when it came to jobs, they wanted everything to have identity. I have a reason still to make every single character even knowing they all don't excel well in certain areas, you use each job for different purposes. If you start making all the jobs feel the same it will just make people bored even faster in endgame.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Cak33
    Offline

    Cak33 Headless Horseman

    819
    342
    371
    Oct 24, 2019
    Male
    10:25 PM
    NotCut3
    Hero
    172
    Active
    Heroes are jack of all trades too (other then the lack of support skills) but yet we are thrown to worst class.
    I think heroes are fine the way they are, but it shows that this server doesn't want mediocre damage - only the best of the best are accepted.

    And for heroes vs shads, without SI, you guys do alittle more damage on single target (according to nise's calculation) and i think thats fine, I'm contented hero's damage as of now. And regarding cleave, who tf cleaves anyways xDD
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  8. OP
    OP
    Thuglifer
    Offline

    Thuglifer Capt. Latanica

    340
    88
    273
    Sep 1, 2021
    Male
    10:25 PM
    Beginner
    most of these are already suggested under TLDR, hmm but for meso from pp to drop near shad, any reason why it's necessary? cause meso drops is based on boss/mob hitbox and i can only see it benefiting HT over the other bosses, while most other bosses you will want pp meso to drop on the boss and not on the shad themselves.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. Gurk
    Offline

    Gurk Nightshadow

    677
    447
    350
    Mar 9, 2020
    Male
    7:25 AM
    Gxrk
    Hero, Bishop, Marksman, Shadower, Buccaneer, Corsair
    People keep throwing out this term (and I have to admit, it quite triggers me at this point), but just what exactly is it that imbues shads with this "jack of all trades" quality and not DKs, heroes, paladins, buccs and MMs?

    Citation needed.

    In what world does the worst of something equate "respectable"?

    You say "balancing reason" but all warriors reach the HP thresholds needed for bossing much easier than shads even with meso guard and they also level just as fast, and yet they obviously do excel in certain areas. For DKs and heroes that area is cleaving and for paladins that area is single target damage. Meanwhile the former two still do more single target damage and the latter still does more cleave damage than shads. What makes a shad a better first character to make than any of the above (other than the fact that you can still use a shad as a sed mule after rerolling to a new class :yay:)?
     
    • Agree Agree x 11
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. Daydreamer
    Offline

    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

    705
    243
    376
    Jul 8, 2017
    Male
    7:25 AM
    I/L Arch Mage
    Make Smokescreen cooldown decrease with DPS???
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Creative Creative x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Trion
    Offline

    Trion Capt. Latanica

    305
    77
    273
    Jul 23, 2019
    10:25 AM
    Trion
    Beginner
    1
    Yeah I wouldnt exactly know the particulars but that could be a very cool idea. I think people get too hung up on Shad's own personal DPS (because who the heck doesn't want to do BIGGER damage numbers... its always fun) but rather being jack of all trades or dare I say "semi-support" character the object is to deal damage while also allowing others to shine. Smokescreen gives off the a Holy Shield vibe and both bring a smile to my face everytime its used.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. flow
    Offline

    flow Slimy

    245
    102
    256
    Jan 18, 2021
    Male
    Brazil
    11:25 AM
    Lisnar, HolyFlow, Theorist
    Buccaneer
    166
    Funk
    warrior levels faster and have less work with wash, and if maplelegends just ignore balance issues the server 'll die, you need to look the game with 2022 lens because it is 2022, not 2003 anymore and a good 3 job isn't a balance parameter, everyone can level fast on magestory too xD
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. flow
    Offline

    flow Slimy

    245
    102
    256
    Jan 18, 2021
    Male
    Brazil
    11:25 AM
    Lisnar, HolyFlow, Theorist
    Buccaneer
    166
    Funk
    oh sorry, i don't saying thats all my personal ideas, but my preference on what change he can get.
    when you're hitting for example wings, the mesos drop inside the body and you can't boom it, same with zak arms, krex eye, etc, and would be fun if shad keeping pooping mesos every hit
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  14. Trion
    Offline

    Trion Capt. Latanica

    305
    77
    273
    Jul 23, 2019
    10:25 AM
    Trion
    Beginner
    1
    Shadowers level way faster than warriors. I might have agreed with you if they had the old auto aggro mannies, but its very easy to level fast with Shads. Also if you are starting with a warrior you can have accuracy issues, Shads don't require SI or accuracy gear to keep going. Very low maintenance.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  15. -ovv
    Offline

    -ovv Horntail

    2,246
    880
    500
    Feb 23, 2020
    Male
    7:25 AM
    -ovv
    Beginner
    200
    Honor
    The only reason Shads were placed higher than heroes in the worst class thread was because Shads can be sed mule, but so can heroes. In a meta where Shads are better off muled in HT, they run into the same complications as current bishop mains in PB. Better off muling so they don't take splits and replacing with another damage dealer.

    With that said, there is absolutely no reason Shadowers should do less single target damage than Heroes or DKs.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Like Like x 3
  16. Trion
    Offline

    Trion Capt. Latanica

    305
    77
    273
    Jul 23, 2019
    10:25 AM
    Trion
    Beginner
    1
    I have played them on other servers and in GMS before, we all know mesos bombing is considered the more expensive option but I never said anything about that being for starters. I just said they level faster than warriors point blank. The thing I said that is good for starters is that mesos guard is good for first timers to ease the NX cost a little and you don't need accuracy gear. SI isn't used for warriors necessarily leveling up. It is used to increase their DPS because they don't have the faster attack speed of daggers.

    Don't resort to personal attacks as an argument because that isn't one. I wouldn't mind making Shadowers when I am done with my other characters, some people just don't prefer that. Everyone has different likes and dislikes, get over it. You keep saying there is a "best class" what is this magical best class you are talking about? Seems like you just want shadowers to be number 1 in everything with no flaws.
     
  17. Cak33
    Offline

    Cak33 Headless Horseman

    819
    342
    371
    Oct 24, 2019
    Male
    10:25 PM
    NotCut3
    Hero
    172
    Active
    In 2nd job, maybe. Bandits don't really have solid leveling skills other then savage blows, so you are dependent on PQs all the way until lvl 70.
    In 3rd job, I'll only agree if its paladin or DK. The fire elemental charge is way too OP, unlocking vikerola before lvl 80 as a training spot, and with DK roar plus a priest, well, I don't think so.

    Sorry, but I don't agree with this in relation to DKs and Paladins, due to reasons stated above. They may be on par or faster then heroes (without meso bombing), which I have absolutely no idea on.

    Regarding acc gear, warriors can purchase decent acc gear using the 100% scroll NPCs (+5 acc for glove, + 14dex OA using lvl 30 OA from NPC) assuming that he did not intend to sell anything to FM. Unrealistic for starters, but if they get a zakum helmet, virtually all accuracy issues up till lvl 120 will be diminished. Without a zakum helmet, things gets alittle more tricky. Buying dirt cheap acc shoe scrolls and tossing in snowshoe is an option, which is what I did on my journal, and it did help me on lvl 70-77ish. One may argue that this will lose the golden leveling of lvl 70 to 80, but do remember pally unlocks another power leveling at vikerola, which has only 5 avoid stats and in my experience, is double the EPM of kid mannies.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  18. damon182
    Offline

    damon182 Brown Teddy

    69
    19
    65
    Apr 13, 2021
    Male
    10:25 AM
    SendMeDOGE
    Shadower
    I can see that this thread has devolved into some weird stuff, but I would like to pose a usefull change: Allow band of thieves to proc even if you didn't 'hit' a mob. I don't remember when this change happened in normal MS, but I think it was a good change. Basically BoT in ML you have to hit a mob in front of you, for the skill to proc the extra bandits coming. There was a verseion of MS where BoT was just an AoE and you didn't need to hit a mob with the initial strike.

    The reason I think this would be useful is because as previously stated in the thread, shadowers are good first characters. This means that usually (myself included) you might have to wash into late game. This change would make grinding a bit faster, so you can get to bossing standards. And IMO make the skill feel less clunky.

    Sorry if I didn't articulate the difference in the 2 versions of BoT well, just reply me and I'll do my best to explain it better
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  19. Soblet
    Offline

    Soblet Zakum

    1,359
    1,346
    491
    Sep 14, 2015
    3:25 PM
    Soblet
    Bandit
    200
    Pasta
    It's really hard to believe a new player that reaches level 50 can't afford to pay for a zakum helm. Not only are there the obvious expensive scrolls from quests you could get but once you finish the prequest you get 5 eyes of fire which you could trade for a helm (can probably get a helm for like 3 eyes depending on who's running).

    Also yea meso explosion grind is fast but really isn't that much better than just buying leech which all jobs can do. I'm not really sure of leech prices now but if inflation has hit those too meso explosion could have become a better option since I was at those levels. More inflation please.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  20. Trion
    Offline

    Trion Capt. Latanica

    305
    77
    273
    Jul 23, 2019
    10:25 AM
    Trion
    Beginner
    1
    If we are including leech as a way of leveling, then yeah nothing matters when you start talking about leveling for any job.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

Share This Page