A Deeper Dive into Leech and its Adverse Effects on Holistic Balance

I agree with that. My entire point is that I don't believe we should make leech impossible. I think we can continue with leech system AND add this. Leeching 1) is not an easy job, 2) is usually done by sweaty players and 3) is also a good meso sink. Not everyone will do this and seems we don't even have that much players doing it right now, so I don't see a problem on it. Why having a mage to leech yourself after waiting something like 2 years to wash to 19k (with 30k potential) on ranged class is a problem?

However, the INT thing I completely agree, it's friendly for new players. Now we can say "ok you should add some int to wash, but dont worry, it still gives you some extra damage, just a bit less than your main stat". They won't complain as they usually do.

 

Playing my I/L more over the last few months, I'm coming to like how mages get extra hp and mp by holding on to AP to mp wash/double wash without pumping AP into some useless stat first.

Why not make the main stat for each class work the way int does for mages? E.g. base luk gives extra mp to shads and NLs, which they can use to mp wash or hp wash (the numbers obviously need to be adjusted)

 

what about all the Beginners or Oddjobs that takes 2-3minutes to kill high level mobs.... that'd be a sad day for that style of afk check = kills/second.

 

I mean as a complete replacement for how int helps non-mage classes

 

I guess I understand where you're coming from... although most Beginners are nostalgic for doing that grind and farming, and being able to kill mobs no matter how long it takes without help from anyone

....since that would be considered leeching, and beginners are mostly Non-Leeched.

oh yeah... and beginners are 8hp stale washed, and extra MP gains are worse than mages.

Spoiler: 30k hp beginner calc

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Also Campers/Islanders are the only characters that can't really be leeched (even though party members do get exp), since the eph gains are so minimal.

If there was a leech-redesign, then everyone would be like campers/islanders and require active party play.

Spoiler: Leeching my Blood Camper to lvl14

I'd say that while it would be good to change up how party exp is gained to promote active party members.... it could also reduce the over population of the server, as...

not many people are hardcore grinders that are willing to spend TONS of their IRL time just to grind out long hours for only minimal gains.

also some players just want to be left alone, and spend time by themselves for some solo play and maybe self-leech to try out different meta play-styles.

 

If you don't enjoy playing mage class... then why are you playing one?
And if you enjoy one... your investment will make your class more enjoyable, I don't see an immediate downside to it.

I'm all in for ironman characters, but I disagree with having Blessing of the Fairy. It will make ironman characters suddenly a requirement for sweat lords and it will become another HP-Washing problem where one says its a necessity and another says it isn't

 

Sorry for post revival but I think its still relevant - I too second that leeching should be nerfed. In my opinion it disincentivizes many of the mechanics that made maple story great (teaming up, level together, pqing together, etc.)

 

ML veterans campaigning for leech to get nerfed under the guise that it will “help” new players. Give me a break.

You know what new players will see? They’ll see a server that is already top-heavy with end game players that then made it harder for new players to catch up.

I recently made a new character and grinded it from 1-75. Did all the PQ’s and got their equips, met tons of people, did plenty of card hunting and grinding with friends. My new chars buddy list is flush with active players in the 3rd/ early 4th job range. It has been a very fun and engaging journey with this char.

The problem is that so many of you are hyper focused on the “most optimal and efficient” ways of leveling & washing that you need to be incentivized to actually play your characters through the early game. Here’s the thing, nobody is forcing you to leech your characters…. You can go make a new character, grind it out, make new friends, and nobody is going to stop you. The only ones stopping you are yourselves because it’s not as efficient as leech.

Leech is OP, but the real problem is the mentality of the player base (especially on these forums) being too fixated on efficiency and hyper-washing. There is plenty of good and fun content early, y’all just skip over it like ML is some kind of race to end game.

 

I'm very sure Kmac missed this part of your quote below

This is slightly off-topic, but back to what Kmac was emphasizing. Even if HP washing is truly optional, with the mentality of the forum here, most of us will still leech anyways, and sooner or later, a leech nerf thread will happen.

And also, on-topic, there are ways to play the game without leeching, and still have 15k-17k HP on your range characters (save 2m nx, 140int by lvl 50-70, wash mp 5 times for 80-100 levels, more info here: https://forum.maplelegends.com/inde...ll-every-boss-on-your-ranged-character.39844/). As once again, Kmac mentioned, with the mentality of this forum, leech will be the option due to the somewhat higher amount of NX (aka, inefficient) required.

 

I think it's more them indirectly calling you out on your sweaty optimal path to end game thread. Maybe not you specifically, but the prevailing mentality of most end game players.

It's kinda like building a bridge to a nice island and then demanding it get torn down before everyone else has a chance of being able to afford the toll.

Leeching is definitely something to consider, but I think adding more options that make leeching feel inadequate would be a better approach.

For instance, there are only a few mobs that give a lot of exp for what they're worth(CDs, for example), but there are a ton more that don't give enough for the effort it takes. I know there's typically more to it, but if everything was scaled a bit better we'd likely have people leeching in better places(15 one-shot kills is 15 kills no matter how you look at it), leaving the "optimal solo/duo" areas for people who can't afford or don't want to leech.

A perfect exp:hp and/or level ratio isn't necessary, but making chonkier mobs in general dish out more exp is definitely a good starting point.

And I get that my first paragraph will likely be taken as hostile, I meant it as a playful jab. If you post elitist stuff even as satire you gotta be able to take it in stride when people call you out that includes me, yes.

 

Well thing is, you can't simply change player mentality, but you can simply nerf idle party xp gain.

 

First off, I support your suggestion. That being said, I think your analysis is somewhat off base.

The first thing I want to touch on is the lack of second and third job players. As servers age, the amount of endgame characters goes up and the amount of every other character goes down. This is a natural process with every server and while eliminating leech would help do away with it, it won't ultimately fix the shrinking amount of end game players.

Something I noticed is very few second and third job characters, but plenty of people making first job characters. Even early second job is decently populated. Why is this? Conventional wisdom holds that it's because leech is just "too strong," but I think it has more to do with poor grinding options well into second and third job. Sure, there are stand out spots like GS2 and Gallos, but in general most maps fall off hard. PQs are not that great too. Nerfing leech would definitely help bring more people to grinding areas, but "holistic balance" requires a holistic look at what makes grinding in second and third suck ass (not just high INT).

About the utility of low level equips and certain scrolls: my experience is that the lack of these has very little to do with player population. I have a ton of low level equips and random scrolls that are rotting in my inventory because the FM system sucks ass to sell stuff in. Look at oldschool RuneScape or World of Warcraft Classic in comparison to v62: in those games you can list up items super fast in the Grand Exchange and Auction House respectively. Searching for items is quick and painless. You can sort items by quantity, price, etc. None of this "owling" bullshit. WoW in particular has a market API where you can see price trends. OSRS has similar websites (I don't know if this existed back in the day, but Gaia Online had similar systems at the time). Selling stuff in the FM is such a colossal pain in the ass. Even just pricing stuff "correctly" is a hassle. IMO it would help the server a ton if FM shops stayed open for three days instead of one day only.