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Why do you boss?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by -ovv, Jul 25, 2022.

  1. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    For those of you who weren't around at that time or for those who might have forgotten, around this time last year, bossing economy was in shambles as calculations had come out a large majority of content wasn't even comparable to single mage ulu2 farming. This was addressed in the 2021 balance roadmap, especially with this post:

    It's been a little over a year since the concept of prestigious coins was introduced. Since then, we've gotten prestigious coins and a few scrolls added to the drop tables to support the bossing economy, but the limits of farming methods have been pushed significantly with the normalization of multimaging, and the degeneracy has evolved significantly since our humble ulu2 days.

    With that said, I wanted to ask the community what their thoughts are on the current situation with bossing as a whole. This thread is meant to be entirely open format, but I wanted to add a few guided questions to help facilitate discussion.

    1. What type of player would you classify yourself as? (Casual, Sweaty, In-Between)
    2. What types of bosses do you run, and why?
    3. Do you also participate in mage farming/multimage farming?
    4. Leave any other comments/thoughts regarding this topic.
     
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  2. Tarnished
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    Tarnished Mixed Golem

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    1. In-between
    2. Any boss I can run, because it's fun
    3. I have 1 low level Bishop and 1 F/P in development

    Every MMORPG is in one form or another just chasing the dragon. For me, that dragon is bossing. There would be no reason to multi-mage or hp wash or even seek better items if I weren't going to kill bosses. This seems to be the case for most players given how the big DPS chars are time-gated behind HP washing and daily engagement with ML.

    I don't have any expectation that bossing should be nearly as lucrative as farming, but bossing should inspire high level players to work together in the same way new players group up to PQ because ultimately community interaction is what gives ML longevity over any modern phone game I could be playing. To me that would imply bosses have a small chance to drop rare and exciting loot, they should instill a sense of pride and accomplishment, and end-game bosses should be near impossible to beat without a decent number of real players (not multi-client mules)
     
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  3. flow
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    flow Slimy

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    1. What type of player would you classify yourself as? Sweaty
    2. What types of bosses do you run, and why? Only like HT and PB because i think other bosses are boring, but didn't never did PB on legends
    3. Do you also participate in mage farming/multimage farming? Multimage farming
    4. Leave any other comments/thoughts regarding this topic.


    I believe bossing have everything to be good, only happens of mages being extremly overpowered, specially multimage.

    But well, this happens because we have too much more freedom on farming than bossing, and i believe thats correct, farming SHOULD be better because its a tradeoff of exp to money and not fun as bosses, bossing is a good mix between money and exp and can be done by everyone,unfortunately happens of money = exp on legends.
    I'm not an expert, but bossing as the main source of money isn't even fun, i would like to say i think they're in a good spot, but yes they aren't.
    Multimage provides 40m/h+ and simultaneously level 4~12 mages and your attacker receive NX from the ground and make your wash faster, too many PRO's,and only con is making the mages, even farming is actually very easy (unless you do a extreme tech like akash and his mages+mu without safespots).
    But well, for what reason you want to make a lot of money? To flex on smegas To do bosses faster than before and be able to join more optimized runs, if we look in that way, at least bossing gives money SlimeCry.
    I think the early game bosses are on a reasonable spot, but pouch1 can have the droprate increased (maybe 100%?), but 1~2 coins instead of 1~3 helping new players to get basic funds without RNG, and HT pouch drop deserve a buff since it is the main boss of late game (PB is once a week and i don't know about it)
     
  4. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    1. What type of player would you classify yourself as? (Casual, Sweaty, In-Between): Sweaty
    2. What types of bosses do you run, and why: Pink bean with occasional HT. Pink bean is really the only boss that can give rewards on par with selling leech or mage farming.
    3. Do you also participate in mage farming/multimage farming? Yes
    4. Leave any other comments/thoughts regarding this topic.


    Overall i think that it is too easy to multimage farm when safespots are in play. You can even multimage + boss at the same time because of how easy it is to farm with safespots to attack from. Bossing wise, I think that only pink bean is in good shape - everything else i think would need some increase in pouch drop rates to make mid tier bossing on par with mid tier mage farming.
     
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  5. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    1. What type of player would you classify yourself as? (Casual, Sweaty, In-Between):
    In-Between
    2. What types of bosses do you run, and why:
    Pink Bean, Dunas, Nibelung & Nameless for the most part. These bosses fit my class well enough and I enjoy running them
    3. Do you also participate in mage farming/multimage farming?
    No, despite being a mage main I haven't done any farming or leeching in ages. Other then some occasional grinding myself at Oblivion 5.
    4. Leave any other comments/thoughts regarding this topic.

    Don't think I'm in a position where I should be rambling my thoughts much more on this topic so I'll leave it at this but looking forward to hear some of yours.
     
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  6. Gurk
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    Gurk Nightshadow

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    1. What type of player would you classify yourself as? (Casual, Sweaty, In-Between):
    In-Between

    2. What types of bosses do you run, and why:
    PB for the copium, HT for actual non-braindead content and an okay mix of exp/mesos, Toad for the high pouch drop rate and solid exp, Berga for exp and interactive content, Nameless for when I want to turn my brain off, Zak to rage and develop conspiracy theories of shadow nerfs for pouch rates, and JC because it's short and easily digestible.

    3. Do you also participate in mage farming/multimage farming?
    No, I haven't touched my mages in at least a year.

    4. Leave any other comments/thoughts regarding this topic.
    Don't think I'm in a position where I should be rambling my thoughts much more on this topic so I'll leave it at this but looking forward to hear some of yours.
     
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  7. CreamPuffDad
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    CreamPuffDad Timer

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    This resonates with me. It's just an anecdote, but i recently bought my zakum helm from a couple of sellers, but i noticed they had both brought:
    1 single target attacker each,
    1 arch mage each,
    1 Bishop each; and
    1 Bowmaster.

    The entire first part of zakum consisted of them using the archmages to boom the map and arms. Once the arms have died, they switched over to the single target attacker. Their mules just sat to the side whenever they were not needed.
     
  8. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Zakum

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    1) in between

    2) I run all boss i found squad, in most of time i do NT, in a Fun content to earn exp and money (i think is very hard to beat 7f on exp, and then multimage farm on money) but boss is fun

    3) i use my bs as hs mule and to farm low lv card.

    Coment:
    I think some peoples (spec the new players/casual) got scary by multimage farm, it give tons of money, but here is an rpg and have some other options to make money for who is casual/in between (for who is at end game and looking perf gears it not apply)
     
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  9. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    1. What type of player would you classify yourself as? (Casual, Sweaty, In-Between)
    Casual
    2. What types of bosses do you run, and why?
    Horntail/Jiaoceng for exp, CWKPQ for the capes. There's not alot of bosses that I feel it's worth bringing a shadower to so I usually don't boss alot.
    3. Do you also participate in mage farming/multimage farming?
    No, my only 4th job mage is a bishop which I use for it's utility.
    4. Leave any other comments/thoughts regarding this topic.

    Don't think I'm in a position where I should be rambling my thoughts much more on this topic so I'll leave it at this but looking forward to hear some of yours.
     
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  10. fael
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    fael Nightshadow

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    1. What type of player would you classify yourself as? (Casual, Sweaty, In-Between)
    In-between
    2. What types of bosses do you run, and why?
    I used to bga/toad/jc/verga/nameless everyday for exp only, ht once a week maybe (there wasnt prestigious coins back then, so mesos were really trash). Now I just do anything I want with friends, nothing specific.
    3. Do you also participate in mage farming/multimage farming?
    I sold A LOT of low lv leeching to buy gears when I didnt know it was a bad call. Did some 2 hit skele leech and 1 hit after 166 on my bishop. Sold leech until lv194ish. Also did few hours of ulu and some leech after reaching 200.
    4. Leave any other comments/thoughts regarding this topic.


    If optimal gameplay means all you want is to perfect your gears as fast as you can to make bosses you will end up in the dumb cycle of: farm to make mesos > buy gears to boss > realize bosses dont give mesos > back to farm for.....?
    Kimmy was right this whole time, you should play for your memories. Theres nothing wrong in farming to get good gears, but if that's all you want then you better enjoy the multimage meta cuz nothing else gonna be good.
    So, nowadays I believe you just gotta have right decisions (which requires some knowledge) and do whatever you want to make mesos. Gachapons being dropped by any monsters means anything you do can be ok for mesos, so it's probably much better to farm using a NL or whatever job you like that you can spend long hours enjoying your gameplay than creating a mage that you be bounded to farm and probably won't do not even 1h session, if you don't like the job.
     
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  11. Snork
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    Snork Capt. Latanica

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    1. Casual
    2. Whatever friends and guildies are up for
    3. no
    4. I think casual bossing is in a great spot. You can occasionally do some bosses, have fun and sell your coins to boom some stuff now and then. But if ur a casual and have aspirations on wsing a perf weapon then I have bad news. But I also think wsing a perf weapon should be out of reach with casual play.

    I mean I don't think I'm in a position where I should be rambling my thoughts much more on this topic so I'll leave it at this but looking forward to hear some of yours.
     
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  12. noobynoob
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    noobynoob Slime

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    1. Casual
    2. Anything that my HP will allow me. I boss cause it’s the only thing I find fun in the game. Why else would I waste time hp washing
    3. Have 1 bish that I level occasionally if I have nothing to do (does that count as farming?). Rarely sell leech
    4. Agree with fael.

    [Insert Nightz reply]
     
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  13. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    1. Casual
    2. Barely any, regular ravs and I've been trying to mix in more JC/Zak/Krex. Additionally, I'm looking forward to finally closing the gap between my I/L and NT content. I also find cwk pretty fun, but I/L cleave prior to having BigBang is a meme at best.
    3. I have 6 4th job mages (created for the purpose of farming). The options for multimaging are definitely there but I don't feel particularly compelled to do it. The meso/hr is amazing but it's such mindnumbing 'gameplay'
    4. @ovv why not answer your own questions? :')
     
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  14. Camazotz
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    Camazotz Pink Teddy

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    1. Casual
    2. All of them, don't really have a schedule. I host 12 man HT every week.
    3. I don't have any mages period. I think they are boring.
    4. I would rather just be broke and weak than do boring shit like farming.
     
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  15. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    1. What type of player would you classify yourself as? (Casual, Sweaty, In-Between)
    - Casual
    2. What types of bosses do you run, and why?
    - Zakum, Scar/Targa & Krex. Why? Easy to host within guild, each run ends in less then an hour, very little worry on class comp
    - Pap & Rav. Soloable, and general good $$ if u dont merch and multimage
    3. Do you also participate in mage farming/multimage farming?
    - No, strictly no mage. I don't enjoy the class, hence I'll never ever play it.
    4. Leave any other comments/thoughts regarding this topic.
    - Strictly no HT. I don't even buy pendant even though I need it because each run takes too long to wait.
    - Waiting for guildies to hit Verga levels, probably something I'm excited about despite knowing the wait will be long :)
     
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  16. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    1. What type of player would you classify yourself as? (Casual, Sweaty, In-Between):
    casual
    2. What types of bosses do you run, and why:
    PB only since the rest is too much for sanity
    3. Do you also participate in mage farming/multimage farming?
    none, just leech like the old days
    4. Leave any other comments/thoughts regarding this topic.
    the worst thing about bossing is when people are late - something no amount of buffs can solve
     
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  17. Cornwall
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    Cornwall Chronos

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    1. What type of player would you classify yourself as? (Casual, Sweaty, In-Between)
    Sweaty

    2. What types of bosses do you run, and why?
    HT/PB and occasionally toad/BGA. These bosses are the ones that provide the most exp (money in the case of PB). I also enjoy the challenge of improving DPM in HT as it is more interactive for some classes.

    3. Do you also participate in mage farming/multimage farming?
    Yes, I would say an 80% of my time in the game is dedicated to this.

    4. Leave any other comments/thoughts regarding this topic.
    I think currently if you want to progress in adequate time you need to resort to farming/leeching. Bossing by itself does not provide a constant meaningful amount of mesos. In my opinion it should not either, the way I see the game is a combination of both is what is required to enjoy its content to its fullest. Someone who simply farms may not enjoy the interactive (some would say skilful) aspect of the game, and the ones who simply boss will not enjoy the aspect of the game that provides the most amount of mesos. This is not to tell anyone how they should play the game, simply stating the realities (as I see it) of each style of gameplay.
     
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  18. OP
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    -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    1. What type of player would you classify yourself as?
    • In-Between
    2. What types of bosses do you run, and why?
    • Pink Bean - Guild Runs, mostly for fun, support, and community aspect. Partially for monetary gains.
    • Horntail - Mostly for fun
    • Zakum - Mostly as a challenge, bonus to farm coins
    • Scarlion - Only for helms and sometimes easy Corsair + Paladin content
    • Jiaoceng - Only if I need a bit more exp to level up on one of my characters
    3. Do you also participate in mage farming/multimage farming?
    • I used to Vikerola farm while passively leeching, but my motivation to gain mesos has plummeted and now I just self leech at ToT so I can improve my Zakum attackers/run time.
    4. Leave any other comments/thoughts regarding this topic.
    I think everyone has different ideas for what an ideal server looks like. For me, an ideal MapleLegends experience would be the ability to boss from 160+ on your own attacker client and have enough funds to finish a weapon by the time you hit level 200. This hasn't been the case since 2019 to early 2020. As others have stated already, I believe bossing economy is the crux of the server's health. If bossing is uneconomical, there is no reason to do anything in this game since most of the game's design and character progress points towards becoming a more proficient bosser.

    With that said, I feel like bossing as a whole has gotten less 'fun' with fewer reasons to interact with other people. Pink Bean and Horntail are the only two bosses that would warrant variety of compositions/players and as such offer a social component, but that hasn't felt social at all to me, for some reason. Bosses like Jiaoceng and Zakum could offer a social component, but that would mean distributing your rewards for the run, which is a counter-incentive to run socially/with others.

    This feeling/lull might be more a testament to me not having a 'main character' anymore after hitting 200.

    What do you believe is an adequate time for progress?
     
  19. Cornwall
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    Cornwall Chronos

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    That is very relative to each person's amount of time and dedication to the game. If you're someone playing 10 hours a day then the adequate time for you to be able to progress would be much faster than someone playing 1-2 hours a day. Those playing a lot can finish a perfect weapon in 2-3 months, while others on 1-2 hours a day might find that time to be quite larger. Yet the bossing vs farming aspect of this comparison would be measuring how effectively you would be using your time when you're in-game. Even if you're very diligent in finding a party and running each boss, there are only so few expeditions you can do in a day. In farming everything depends on you getting your setup ready and just doing it. I guess that is what I meant by farming is required to progress in adequate time (regardless of how many hours you play).
     
  20. OP
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    -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Disclaimer - the following numbers are rough estimates off the top of my head so feel free to fact check/correct me.

    ~40 white scrolls or 12.8b mesos in 2-3 months, at ~40m/hour would be ~320 hours of multimaging, or 3.5 - 5.3 hours a day, cut a bit shorter if you get lucky with gach.

    I think the bossing vs farming aspect is what I'm going back to, as things were much closer in comparison back in 2019, if not reversed.

    To get to 12.8b with Horntail only today, you'd need to run something like 640 Horntails at a generous 20m/run, which is roughly about 200 runs more than it takes exp-wise to get from 170-200. Let's give a generous average run time of 1.25 hours. This clocks in at ~800 hours of bossing, and you're gated by two runs a day, so this would need to be spread across 320 daily 2x horntail runs. Sure, you can sprinkle in a Pink Bean run here and there to expedite your progress a bit, but this discrepancy between farming and bossing is pretty apparent.

    So a couple more questions:
    • Do you think multimage/mage farming should be a requirement to achieve these end game goals when this was not really the case in the past?
    • Do you think the discrepancy between the bossing progress and multimage farming progress is fine as it is, or could it be made better?
    • Is the current meta for 'appropriate' progress good design?
    • Is bossing worth your time?
    I think we're now getting to the inspiration for this thread's title - why do we boss?
     

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