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Why do you boss?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by -ovv, Jul 25, 2022.

  1. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    if you ignore demographics, no. Multimage is a response to endgame needs & if you look at mw30 prices it's pretty consistent now at like 9 ws per mw30. afaik mw30 prices have actually went down (2b at 7/8/21 when ws ~180m ea)
     
  2. OP
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Would multimaging stop if prices went down?
     
  3. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    I think that question is akin to whether or not you can reverse aging or technological progress. Multimaging is a phenomenon on the server since information was given out so freely. Its proliferation on the server nowadays is a byproduct of our beloved balance team and lack of patches. No patch = no risk. It's better to think of things in terms of the share of active players who want to join the endgame community relative to supply of endgame items and just like in the real world where we see new ideas & processes over time, there are luddites embedded in every corner.

    also money is an idea and prices are but a number.
     
  4. OP
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    -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    I don't disagree with your assessment on how or why multimaging came to be. Scarcity leads to innovation, among other things. I would agree that as the perceived time required to achieve end-game goals grew longer and longer, so did the desire to find more optimal routes.

    Fortunately, we're in a game and staff actually does have the power to reverse aging or technological progress. Whether that would be a good idea or perceived by the community as degenerative is up to them, but let's reformat the question with that in mind.

    Would multimaging become less popular if the time required to achieve end-game goals were brought back to 2019-early 2020 levels?
     
  5. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    Maybe when farming and leeching wages reach some sort of equilibrium. Regarding bossing, you get paid in friendship, magic, and social capital which makes it great and exciting content for gear sharers and inheritors. For farming, imo the damage is done and it's here to stay, just like inaction regarding RWT during 2020-21
     
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  6. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    With current temple of time safe spot meta, i really doubt so. Players will always lean towards the option that gives the most mesos for the least amount of effort. The setup for multimage is hard, but the act of actually farming (with safespots) is not. I would go as far as to say it is more difficult to do single client skele or petri than quad mage at temple of time.
     
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  7. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    if only the same thing works for crypto
    becomes an issue abt undercut. how many times we sell scar/zak/mon/leech sellers undercut each other?
     
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  8. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    dont undercut. dont let hobos undercut the market. its no end to the bottom once that starts happening.
     
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  9. yurain
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    yurain Windraider

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    1. What type of player would you classify yourself as? (Casual, Sweaty, In-Between)
    Casual.

    2. What types of bosses do you run, and why?
    Weekly PB. And whatever things my friends wants to host each day. close to daily toad/NT/JC for smaller group content.

    3. Do you also participate in mage farming/multimage farming?
    No.

    4. Leave any other comments/thoughts regarding this topic.
    I used to actively commenting on bossing and how it should be profitable or at least profit enough for gear progression in the unit of year instead of month for the multimager.
    But the more actual unit of time is probably decade now.
    Whatever.
     
  10. fael
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    fael Nightshadow

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    i kinda got lost on the thread because of my own english limitation, but just to say one more thing: i dont think u should revert to ulu 2 wages, it can be higher than that, and probably changing won't really affects anything in a short term, but i think that could help anyway.

    my point initially was that this kind of farming is the only reason that could justify this increase on prices, because we had the PC system implemented and we didnt grow up in numbers of players.

    what reason you guys consider as the main factor for this inflation? just higher demand? that doesnt convince me tbh.
     
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  11. OP
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    -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    The point I was trying to make earlier is that current multimaging strategies and heightened wages might be wedged into the current economic viability of Pink Bean, so any implementation on nerfing these means of production might have unintended consequences in other aspects of the game.

    According to Akash's data, the average Pink Bean kill is around 1.3b with the median being around 500-600m, which means the expected value is being heavily carried by the market value of Facestompers and MW30 (and a couple perfect attack timeless weapons). However, the ability to run Pink Bean week after week and sell off billions worth of assets only makes sense in an economy where wages and cash/meso flow are high. This was why I posed the question - how would Pink Bean/bossing economy look if current wages were cut short?

    I see people making the argument that bossing economy only revolves around the cost of ws/coins regardless of inflation/price adjustments, but that doesn't take into account for the seemingly set price of apples which creates a semi-fixed expense floor. AFAIK, Onyx Apples are the largest upfront cost of running Pink Bean, and it is very much possible to run at a net loss. Splits are largely dealt with mesos - mesos which are then used to buy Onyx Apples - which are then used to run the next week's Pink Bean. Going back to my point above, what happens if meso production gets throttled, sales take longer, splits take longer, and people are now asked to front more and more of the costs to run while waiting to get paid? If you thought 2-3 months of horntail splits getting tied up for an unsellable NPC-value polearm was bad, imagine the Dilemma of hosts trying to sell a stockpile of semi-valuable timeless gear that people cannot afford? Meso flow is pretty important - maybe not to Pasta where they already have their own internal banking system established, but for many other groups, a slowing of sales could turn off players from running entirely.

    I don't think anybody is saying multimaging has had no effect in prices. However, it's undeniable that demand for ws/cs only ever increases as the server ages, and players progress only in one direction until they quit.
     
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  12. fael
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    fael Nightshadow

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    I just think the demand is the same or close to that. I think the demand doesnt justify these prices. But Im not sure yea
     
  13. CheeseEater
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    CheeseEater Blue Snail

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    1. What type of player would you classify yourself as? (Casual, Sweaty, In-Between)
    In-between? I want to be sweaty but I don't compromise on a lot of things and the amount of time I can put in makes me not go all in.
    2. What types of bosses do you run, and why?
    Tend to prefer raid bosses. CWOK was what i wanted to do 24/7 when I joined the server but now I am closer to preferring stuff i can do in a short period of time.
    3. Do you also participate in mage farming/multimage farming?
    No. I hate playing mages and leveling up mages. I can barely motivate myself to make an HS mule.
    4. Leave any other comments/thoughts regarding this topic.
    Would have loved to see chaos scrolls when they were below 100m. Joined the server and they were 200m, and then prestigious coins happened and they become 350m. Like sheesh.
     
  14. S_tieralbum
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    S_tieralbum Brown Teddy

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    1. What type of player would you classify yourself as? (Casual, Sweaty, In-Between)
    Originally in between, now casual.
    2. What types of bosses do you run, and why?
    Whatever pops up when I feel like it. Usually the more interactive the better (to the degree you can call oldschool bossing 'interactive')
    3. Do you also participate in mage farming/multimage farming?
    Never.
    4. Leave any other comments/thoughts regarding this topic.
    I already have a fulltime job, there's no reason in my mind to spend even a minute playing MapleLegends unless I'm either passively or preferably actively enjoying it
     
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  15. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

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    even though I've paused to play ML for months I wished to reply, so here's mine.

    1. What type of player would you classify yourself as? (Casual, Sweaty, In-Between)

    Casual-minded sweaty one (or at least I think myself so)

    2. What types of bosses do you run, and why?

    was HT usually. Because I loved the time I spent 'together' with other players, and I wished to have such chances as much as possible. but low-tier bosses under HT weren't charming enough to attract other players (by profit-wise), I thought HT would be ideal for my wish, so I did it.

    3. Do you also participate in mage farming/multimage farming?

    Yes, definitely.

    4. Leave any other comments/thoughts regarding this topic.

    I'm almost done with ML but still it's lovely to lurk and see how stuffs go on here while I have short break irl. good luck on everyone, everything.

    noticed there are added questions so here are.

    • Do you think multimage/mage farming should be a requirement to achieve these end game goals when this was not really the case in the past?
    I haven't see any moment in this server when magefarming wasn't needed to reach end-game quickly and efficiently, since 2015. Still it was, and it is, 'Optional'. Like HP washing meme

    • Do you think the discrepancy between the bossing progress and multimage farming progress is fine as it is, or could it be made better?
    Would be risky to throw dead peoples opinion so I'd mute.
    • Is the current meta for 'appropriate' progress good design?
    Never liked it, but 'no pain no gain' is essence of RPG game I think.
    • Is bossing worth your time?
    Definitely yes because I got what I wished to get through bossing. Fun time with friends.
     
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  16. Hyoon
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    Hyoon Zakum Retired Staff

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    1. What type of player would you classify yourself as? (Casual, Sweaty, In-Between)
    Casual
    2. What types of bosses do you run, and why?
    Nameless, Dunas, Zak, Scar
    3. Do you also participate in mage farming/multimage farming?
    No
    4. Leave any other comments/thoughts regarding this topic.
    I mainly clear anything that I have time for/that I can solo.
    I've been soloing bosses primarily since I'm too lazy to gather people for runs and it makes splits a lot more profitable for me.
    Been doing this since my first NightLord was around 16X with Scar selling helmets for 30m each. I started the trend of free reloots on run, when reloots used to cost like 5m a pop.
     
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  17. KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    1. What type of player would you classify yourself as? I'm casual as hell, I'm on the endgame even tho I play the game wrong.
    2. What types of bosses do you run, and why? I've tried them all but nowadays only PB, the rest of the bosses are a waste of money most of the time, now even more so thanks to the new meso sink.
    3. Do you also participate in mage farming/multimage farming? I can't stand even single mage, too bad that's the endgame life, that's why I say I play the game wrong: mostly single client and no mage farming.
    4.Do you think multimage/mage farming should be a requirement to achieve these end game goals when this was not really the case in the past?
    I'm not totally against meso farming, if only bossing was a decent alternative, I always earned mesos slowly and it was cool by me but now most bosses are a waste of time and I feel like I can't afford most stuff, I've gotten manny MW25 (Yep no MW30 here otherwise it would be 15%) and stompers, can't afford any of them unless I multimage.
    5.Do you think the discrepancy between the bossing progress and multimage farming progress is fine as it is, or could it be made better?
    Nope 95% of the bosses are terrible if you want to make mesos. Some can be ok if you are on the early game when things are cheap, but don't you dare to buy WS and CS or any of the PB drops.
    6.Is the current meta for 'appropriate' progress good design? Old MS and good design don't go hand to hand but is nostalgic. People playing this server are not kids anymore and they figure out ways to break the game and abuse every little thing they can. As it is now multiclienting, especially multimagin has come on top and you either adapt and imitate the meta or just do something else: coping, quit the game, keep playing getting things slower than before, etc..
    7.Is bossing worth your time? Lets see the list:
    Zakum- Nope, especially after pot money increase
    Papulatus- Yes, best boss.
    HT-Is some exp but you are most of the time you waste mesos
    NT part 1-Nope, droprate is bad and most changes to it made modes more obnoxious just in case you wanna mule.
    NT part 2-95% of the time nope. If you are super duper endgame you can try to get a good helmet, most of the time is a waste of mesos, especially if you play a melee. I don't know if this is intended but a lot of Speargrave and Flairgrave drop, sadly all of them are literally useless.
    Jiaoceng- Good exp, not gonna make any mesos but is a good imo for the exp alone, is pretty quick too.
    Krexel- Ok exp but is a snore fest, and you gessed it, no mesos to be done here.
    CWKPQ- Bad exp, mesowise is kinda meh, you may as well just meso farm if you really want mesos.
    The rest are not worth rating.
    8. Leave any other comments/thoughts regarding this topic.
    Thigs are the way they are, if you are mid game or early game is kinda ok perhaps, I don't know since the potion meso increase may have changed stuff; but the endgame is just that: meso farm or get mostly nothing. Is funny how people mistify PB but killing it gets you none of the drops unless you meso farm, in fact not killing it and meso farming gets you more drop than not meso farming and killing PB every week, I know cos I'm there.
    I spect no changes at all, perhaps once people figure out PB we will get a new pattern and more bullsit to deal with just in case people clear it too much, perhaps nerf the spots where ppl multimage so they gotta find out a new spot to farm, and bosses will either be the same or worst, and posts like this won't do anything, developers listen but they end up doing what ever and everything is the same.
    Now lets hope they don't delete this comment cos I'm a toxic endgame player that should have quit long ago, I'm saving it.
    Thanks for reading this big comment lol.
     
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  18. Haku
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    Haku Dark Stone Golem

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    Jiaoceng is actually quite good money for the time if you can duo. Even better if you can solo it with your own range/cleave.
     

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