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Information Anniversary/Summer Event 2022 Balance Changes [Explained]

Discussion in 'Update Notes' started by Nise, Aug 13, 2022.

  1. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    4:29 PM
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    Edit: Most of this is wrong, I'm bad at math. It's the same cost for NLs per 40 minutes of throwing, not 20. I might be too lazy to fix it too
    Edit again: I think I fixed it but it still looks wrong as I finger the hammer marks in my cranium and wonder why.

    Star/bullet changes are honestly sort of awful in an efficiency sense.

    Difference in cost between ilbis and MTKs -> 35 to 85
    Difference in cost between Shiny Bullets and APBs -> 3 to 15
    Difference in attack between both -> 4 attack

    Cost difference per minute used
    ilbis to MTKs -> 3.5k mesos to 8.5k mesos, net 5k saved
    700 bullets shiny to APB -> 1,050 to 5,250, net 4.2k saved

    Now we math out the cost of using some Heartstoppers in addition to using worse stars
    From cider to stopper is a net 40 attack gain, and we'll peg the cost at 200k per stopper.

    For baseline on cider and worse ammo, let's say NL has 140 attack total, and corsair has 170.
    From using best stars, you gain 144/140 dpm on NL, or a 2.86% dps increase
    From using best bullets, you gain 174/170 dpm on corsair, or a 2.35% dps increase

    It is the same cost to use a heartstopper+ilbis per 40 minutes of gameplay compared to pure MTKs
    (38.75/40 * 140/140) + (1.25/40 * 180/140) = .9% dps increase over using exclusively MTKs

    2.86/.9 = 3.17, so if you're looking to match the DPM gain from using MTKs, you'd need to use 3.17 heartstopper per 40 minutes period, or 1 stopper per 12.6 minutes.

    A full set of MTKs cost a grand total of 1.4bil and have an upkeep of 510k per hour. If you're planning on attacking for 3,000 hours, then the total cost of operations is 2.93bil. With that much money on hand, you're capable of of using 14,650 heartstoppers which roughly coincides with 3,000 hours of attacking if you use 1 stopper every 12.6 minutes. If you are planning on doing content for less than that amount of time, it is simply more efficient to purchase heartstoppers rather than MTKs. If these new recharge prices existed for the historic period of the server, there are maybe 2 NLs who would have benefitted from owning MTKs rather than stoppering, and those would be NLs that have at least 2 level 200 NLs.

    Currently, I see no real reason to use MTKs over stoppers unless you plan on playing for an ungodly amount of time. If you own them, I suppose it's fine to keep using them, but purchasing sets seems like a bad monetary move when you can get roughly the same effect by simply using heartstoppers.

    I'd do APBs but I'm lazy and already had to rewrite a load of the math because I forgot that Alchemist exists like a clown. They're much less efficient just looking at the base numbers, but it also fails to account for dpm gain from avoid. It's messier.

    TL;DR: Don't purchase MTKs, you're likely far better off just purchasing Heartstoppers and using 1 every 2 ciders.
     
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  2. Crayo
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    Crayo Chronos

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    Just gonna throw it out there, I don't like this change solely for nostalgia reasons. Nate being tied to dark sight just feels like it's part of the class's identity to me, yknow? Not sure how other shads feel.
     
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  3. vitriaxx
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    vitriaxx Slime

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    As a new player who don’t have a lot of mesos those potion changes really hurt…
     
    • Agree Agree x 19
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  4. Motto
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    Motto Skelegon

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  5. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    You can still nate in dark sight if you want, and you need to be in dark sight to charge.
     
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  6. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    If players are expected to use iframes from PB in order to dodge seds, then is it not fair to say that by the language used here, washing requirements for Pink Bean have gone up for characters to function fully as intended? Patch by patch washing requirements have gone up significantly faster than any means of gaining HP, is the solution that the player base is expected to accept is to wash more? Up until this point, 12k hp has been safe everywhere, but now it's more dubious as to how to dodge 100% of seds without 16k, as rare situations become more common and the less heavily washed become less welcomed as their risk to the run increases.

    If it's not too late I'd recommend reducing the touch damage of PB from 25k to 19k, in order to give everyone the same opportunity to dodge seds via iframes. If washing isn't going to be experience balance changes then it's probably best to not force players to wash more to get around the designed mechanics.

    None of this really even touches on the potion price changes either, as those also disproportionately effect players who didn't wash to the maximum. Overall the big criticism I have for this balance patch is that it makes washing less optional as it chooses to punish those who didn't get to 30k, both in content and in forcing them to spend more of their mesos to play.
     
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  7. Megic
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    Megic Orange Mushroom

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    As a new player and previous experience with NLC price buff, i might retire with my group of friends because this is too much to handle as a new player (i already know how this will go since i was in a server that did the same method and the server had higher drop rate than here).
    -I wont have any chance to train without losing mesos until ill run out of pots, the droprate is extremely hard to return the amount i wasted on pots.
    -while being in 3rd job magician anyways (and i think magicians at 3rd job are in the easier side because their farm is great compared to other classes in 3rd job)
    the amount of pots im using to kill Gallopera for example can reach to [5 pots * X mesos] and that is even with being I/L Mage which is one of the best classes for saving pots.

    I dont think i have a reason to level up anymore because it will cost me more than leech before the update, i cant efford any pots as a new player (playing for a month) and i dont think you leave us the new players other choice rather than stop playing because we are unable to anyways.

    I was hyped about the update, after a month playing this server and seeing future and motivation to keep playing this server i most likely stop now, from past experience and learning the drop rate of this server i dont think its possible for me or any non-fundable player to get a decent/good gear or even having enough pots to train without relying on chaos scroll/whitescroll RNG which very not likely to get.

    If you think its the right solution is to meso sink new players thats fine, taking care and looking at the point of view of the veteran players in this server is in higher priority maybe, I think you could have thought on better ways to money sink on end-game content instead of sinking it from players that are unable to buy decent/good gear/scrolls anyway.
     
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  8. Snork
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    Snork Capt. Latanica

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    Seems like valid concerns. And, as it says, they are actively working on hp washing. So I assume that's ready for the next patch.
     
  9. Motto
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    Motto Skelegon

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    Find the pots that are correct for the LVL you are at.
    Some simple math can make you deduct there are better pots, over the %-based pots.

    Plus they're cheaper to hoard.

    People should stop thinking that

    "Oh the pots to use are Mana Bulls and Hornsters so I'll buy them at lvl 30 and use em till I quit the game".

    Cause at LVL 30, 70 or even 90 there are other pots you can use, without any hassle... and are cheaper as well.

    Ofc those pots won't scale with your HP or MP, but hey, you're at a lower LVL its not about min-maxing meso consumption at that point.
     
    • Agree Agree x 11
  10. noBalance
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    noBalance Snail

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    I must ask, do any of your balance team have NL AS MAIN ?
    from quick look on the GMs forum profiles it looks like most of you are Pirates / BM/ Shades

    I quitted the game so i couldn't care less if you agree or disagree, but those are the facts

    1. 70K-100k recharge per Set x ~ 25-30 sets per day(when you run HT + playing the day it can get to 60 sets) = 2m - 4m per day JUST FOR RECHARGE
    (also pay attention that shadow stars time is now reduced by ~40%, should we add that to the calculation?)

    2. Shades uses less potions than the rest as well, why didn't you balanced them as well?
    - Instead you gave them ~150%-200% more damage with the removal of "Dark-Sight"(keep in mind that now shades can attack while loading the Assassinate).
    - Shades can hit single or mob target and they can train at 7F, which is much easier to train(NLs or BMs cant do that)
    - Look at the latest DPS charts, double the shades graph points and tell me if this is balanced(it is not lol)

    So it seems like the Balance Team is not very Balanced
    if you are going to ruin the NL class at least have the decency to give us the option to change class
    I would have jumped on it in a second even though Shade is much easier to train

    Enjoy your Mapling everyone
    Hope to be back when server is more fair to everyone
     
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  11. Willhelm
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    Willhelm Red Snail

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    11:29 PM
    Looks like I'm going to be living the cherry pie, grilled cheese and pizza life from now on...
     
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  12. Megic
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    Megic Orange Mushroom

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    As a Veteran player in ML you are not objective, I dont use Mana Bulls, in order to use lower pots than the 40% i need to give up on good training places (when i say "good" its the optimal training places for my level (because i get x2 damage than the pots im using lower than 40% and im not even talking about the exp and level up will take x2 more time than im leveling now (that are slow and painful anyways at 3rd job), Im experienced player and i use the right pot method i need compared to my level and the place i need to train, every place im going to i switch pots, im not buying the highest one in order to have easy life, you are just a veteran who doesnt even care or knows the struggles of a newer player so when you grind in your 10 chars when the prices were normal you didnt even feel any struggle..

    Meso-Sink purpose is to sink mesos from the rich, yes it will sink from the rich but thats the easiest solution to sink is from everybody instead of where the money located, you wont hurt the veterans with this update anyway, they are already have end-game gear and have almost nothing to spend their mesos on except pots.

    You wrote in your thread, Leeching prices will rise, scrolls will rise.. and boss items will rise too who do you sink the mesos from? the new players pass their low amount of mesos to richer players to be able to buy the pots without losing a single amount of mesos..
    Ima retire with my group i wont be able to have fun and enjoy with this method not letting me breathe and getting paid and progress from basic 3rd job farming.


    Veteran player = getting more mesos for the progress he's doing, charging more for services, getting more mesos for the same things he was doing.
    New player = use more mesos to progress, pay more mesos for the services the rich players offer (to recover their pot loss) and not getting higher income than he did now.

    meh, im gonna stop playing until the meso-sink is over or at least be a legit and balanced method.. impossible to progress and enjoy as a new player in this server..
     
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  13. firstwolf
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    firstwolf Slime

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    There’s going to be a whole lot of players (particularly mages) between levels 80-120 without a way to earn meso who are absolutely going to be throttled by the potion price changes.

    I understand (and actually support) the NLC potion shop price increases. What I don’t support is doing this without increasing potion drop rate from mobs, quests, and bosses for players.

    Yes, new characters shouldn’t be using NLC pots so this won’t affect them anyway.

    No, you cannot keep using grilled cheese as an MP potion as a level 100 priest.

    Staff did a great job balancing the economy around mid- and late game players however they’ve REALLY made the game harder between levels 80-120 with this change which was ALREADY a difficult period to earn meso.

    E: Yeah, the more I think about this change and how it affects 3rd Job characters the more I realize this affects them way more than it affects anyone else. They don’t have income, they don’t have an alternate source of potions, and mobs hit just as hard.

    Leeching between 80-120 is basically more viable than training between those levels now.

    This was a great solution proposed entirely at the wrong time with a crap ton of collateral.
     
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  14. iccqqq
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    iccqqq Dark Stone Golem

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    laughing emoji
     
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  15. UnknownCode
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    UnknownCode Nightshadow

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    They removed the requirement for Dark Sight with Assassinate for ping issues, so basically it's a latency Shadower buff .

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Ferluci
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    Ferluci Zakum Retired Staff

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    post it on ur main account u pussy.
    Not that staff doesnt know who u are
     
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  17. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    So many I keep forgetting
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    What.

    Why would you double them?
     
  18. UnknownCode
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    UnknownCode Nightshadow

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    I farmed monster book tier 10 at level 10 for NL.. but if they add in the choice to swap subclasses (i.e NL > Shad, vise versa) I would swap to Shad after this patch but.. we can't.. so now I main AFK :)

    Feels bad.
     
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  19. Winnie
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    Winnie Timer

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    rsz_62eea02fd0a1f.png
     
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  20. Chelmsford
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    Chelmsford Red Snail

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    New player who joined the server about 2 months ago. I like casual playing and have amassed a decent amount of mesos (though nothing crazy). All updates here seem great to me, but the increase in potions and coke pills is a tough one. I feel like the only way I can justify training now will be through selling leech on a mage, as the potion cost of grinding for an hour will rise into the millions. As someone who's never bossed in this server and is not ready for bossing yet, this really hurts the potential to grind freely and wherever I want. I understand the concern and honestly am not sure myself what a good fix would look like, but for actual new players, and those joining after me, this will make mid-game a lot more difficult.

    Finally, on the ammo recharge, the high cost for recharging steelies and tobi stars will very harshly hurt starting assassins. Having been one myself, with the already super high cost of obtaining stars, potions and beginner equips in the early game with very little help aside from great players, this might lead new players to get frustrated and quit, as they cannot afford basic necessities to enjoy the game. I don't think I would've still been here if it wasn't for the help of the community obtaining some mesos and items and this update makes that worse.

    Other than that great job and happy to see staff still take updates seriously after 7 years.
     
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