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Information Anniversary/Summer Event 2022 Balance Changes [Explained]

Discussion in 'Update Notes' started by Nise, Aug 13, 2022.

  1. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    +1 here.
    When i was training hero years ago, i made constant loss of mesos going himes.
    Ended up having to juggle between himes and cds to ensure i dont go bankrupt xDD
     
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  2. vitriaxx
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    vitriaxx Slime

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    I updated my post to include that thanks !
     
  3. OP
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    Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    So, taxation issues were definitely looked into this patch when we were trying to see the most efficient way of improving our meso-sinkage.
    [​IMG]

    Our goal was to increase our sinkage to around 1 bil more daily. Getting 2.5% of every trade on the server (FM, trades, duey, etc etc) only added up to 860 mil per day. It is also contingent on how much mesos are being traded around daily. Just some tablecloths maths, since I can't seem to find the exact numbers:
    Code:
    Sink from 2.5% tax = 860,743,220
    Total trades in mesos = 860743220/0.025 = 34,429,728,800
    
    As we need an extra 1 bil daily sinkage, the goal should be 1,860,743,220 sinkage from taxation. Meaning we'd need roughly a 5.4% tax on all items.
    
    Essentially we'd have to double our tax rate, and it would end up affecting the lower level players more too.
    • We can't have scaling tax brackets, as if anything pre-2018 showed us, players will just avoid it with bulk selling/buying <1mil etcs for payouts
    • End game players have alternative payment systems in place already to avoid the 2.5% taxation as much as possible. A system newer players won't have access to, since it requires a union/collective to organize.
    • End game players also avoid taxation at the moment through prestigious coins as vitriaxxvitriaxx mentions in the edit.
    • Unchanged potion prices also means the income stream for mages would remain constant as pre-patch, and potentially even higher, with the raised prices for various items that can be farmed.
    That said, we are looking into ways to more effectively handle taxation on high value trades, and other such methods to decrease the wealth gap (or more specifically, the conditions that propagate said wealth gap).
     
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  4. ryanlights
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    ryanlights Windraider

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    I stopped reading when you said the 'r word'
     
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  5. Motto
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    Motto Skelegon

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    Should've stopped when he said that to me twice [​IMG]

    + I didn't say it lmfao
    + you're reading a quote of his message, where he said it
    + I guess you got hurt cause you're the stockpiler (cause I called that type of people "r word")
     
  6. ryanlights
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    ryanlights Windraider

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    no, i actually dont have any issue with this.
     
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  7. kiwiz
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    kiwiz Skelegon

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    There’s always a balance between gaining meso and leveling speed. Train at more resource intensive areas for faster leveling or gain more meso at slower leveling pace.

    If my character’s strength is going to stay stagnant for a while, I’ll favor meso over speed. If I’m close to a level where my character will gain a power spike from maxing a certain spell, then I’ll consider spending more resources to hasten the process so that I can earn more meso afterwards by being stronger.

    Having no fundings at 4th job can hinder your leveling speed and you’ll be forced to farm at lower level areas with less to no meaningful exp gain. So I’ll mostly favor better meso gain at the early levels to save towards gearing up at lv120.

    If you do end up having no fundings at 4th job, you can try card hunting, which is what I did with my lv122 Shadower 4 weeks ago starting out with 500k meso. Now I’m lv124, 267 sets in and have gotten over 200mil meso without spending any on pots because so many mobs drop elixirs and power elixirs. There’s also magic and summoning rocks, crystal ores and mobs’ etc drop for popular quests.

    In the end this is just a simple resource management and progression is not measured only by your character’s level but your character’s overall strength with respect to the environment. If I have 1 hour to to play, gaining 50% exp or gaining 5m meso in that hour contributes to my character’s overall progression either way.

    So the NLC pot price change is just a slight shift in resource management, which is also part of the game from the very beginning given how volatile the market is and also why I find it fun.

    Since only % pots price have increased, low level characters should not be affected. If you reached the point where % pots are more value for meso, you would’ve learned a thing or 2 about basic resource management by just playing for that long given the low rate nature of this server. If not it’s just a reflection of your poor management skill and no matter the cost, you’d face issues anyway.

    As for star recharge price, that is rather unfortunate for new players. I think many new sin players will get steelies as they are cheap and common in the market without thinking about the recharge cost. Lucky Seven uses 16mp per cast at max level. If we use grilled cheese as the source of mp, that’s 16 meso per cast, plus 2 steely recharge of 40 meso, a total of 56 meso per cast, more than 3x of what it used to be.

    So what we should do is to not sell cheap stars. Let’s all agree to sell steelies at a minimum meso price of 10m and ilbis at 40m each so as to help out new players not to get the stars they cannot afford to recharge ;)
     
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  8. Lynx
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    Lynx Dark Stone Golem Retired Staff

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    How are you saying this "wont sink any mesos from the rich", when meso-sink data is provided and you clearly see that it does.
    And as mentioned many times already, new low lvl players shouldn't be the ones using % NLC pots, those are desgined for high lvl characters and therefor obviously they're the ones who are currently using them the most. Plenty of other pots more suitable for lower lvls out there
     
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  9. Lynx
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    Lynx Dark Stone Golem Retired Staff

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    Actually yes, you do earn more, new scroll drops have been added to various areas in cased you missed it.
     
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  10. vitriaxx
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    vitriaxx Slime

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    Thanks for the reply.

    Here are my two cents on the whole potion prices and meso sink issue.

    Firstly i do get the idea of wanting more a of a meso sink but i think the way the team is handling it is shooting everyone down when the main issue should be focused on mages.

    To put it simply Mages at this point in the game are just too good. Especially bishops. They provide insane utility, have wide map spammable skills and have little no to know downside unless you are a I/L or F/P in bossing. (oh don't forget they make players a lot of mesos through selling leech, like why would you not make a mage? there is just no downside like any other class at least night lords even though they are op, need to wash a lot of hp and is chore but at least there is some form of barrier or time sink but none for mages. See my point?)

    If you want to reduce the income of mages i think putting a cooldown on their Gene type skills or HIGH mana consumption should be appropriate. I probably know that it will be very unpopular and non nostalgia like if a cooldown was introduced but i think a higher mana cost should be done if this is really about mages. As this affects everyone too much. I feel like this half nostalgia non nostalgia type balancing has to go. Either make it nostalgic and leave it as is or go all the way instead of not changing things because its "too drastic."

    Secondly about the potion cost, How do new players who don't sell leech or bossing services make meso? By selling loot from pqs, drops or gachapon. But since White scrolls and chaos scrolls are untradable a large chunk of that potential income is taken away. The amount earned per day for new players is abysmal at best. The reason why the meso hike in nlc potions worked in another "similar" server is because newer and casual players had access to cash items they could sell for income which alleviated their meso potion worries (basically a sort of "daily allowance" which more than covered their potion expenses, i'm not saying we should have that but just a point of why it worked elsewhere) and mainly leech sellers complained about it because leeching wasnt as profitable as well as bossing services. Which is why this would not work in this server as new and casual players don't have access to any stable income other than gachapon and drops which is way more time consuming and don't forget USE POTIONS.

    On the topic of taxation, yes rich players will find ways of avoiding tax as much as possible but i think the introduction of coins is the single biggest mistake this server has done and only widened the gap between the rich and poorer players. (i do not have any statistics to back me up but because of how easy it is to avoid tax using coins i can imagine it has just made things worse) i think an increase in tax general across the board is better because honestly as a player who doesn't sell leech or bossing services i hardly use the trade function. Yes it will affect newer players and older players but at least it wont cause them to go into bankruptcy or have meso anxiety about how much they have left to spend on potions to train.
     
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  11. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    upload_2022-8-14_1-27-45.png
    One fun little tidbit is that going on Pink Bean credit with your pals has saved roughly 5 days of taxes. Though to be fair it encompasses something like a year and a half of play or maybe longer, so it's maybe decreased total taxes paid daily by 1%.
     
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  12. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Let it be known that gear sharing incurs no systematic tax.
     
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  13. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    I want to remind everyone again that this isn't the end of it all. We've established a few times in the roadmap as well that we can't do everything in one patch. We will keep moving forward towards other implementations/changes as well for future patches while observing at the same time.
     
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  14. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    6:42 PM
    while arguably new players don't use NLC pots, a bulk of new players actually procure their stuff from older players, be it a bathrobe, mw20, or some scrolled eq. Wont the increase in NLC pot prices lead to inflation of these products? How sure are we that older players wont pass on these increased costs in their wares and thus harder for new players?
     
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  15. ryanlights
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    ryanlights Windraider

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    you cant
     
  16. Use1essC0W
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    Use1essC0W Slime

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    i believe this is not mentioned for the first time but, with so many changes on the Bean, please consider to reduce DR duration from 20 seconds to 10 seconds, those who didn't pay attention are already dead at the first 2 seconds of DR.
     
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  17. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    So many I keep forgetting
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    Then why would it matter if there's another 8 or 18 seconds if they're already dead? :)
     
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  18. Esmo
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    Esmo Pac Pinky

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    can be added as a mob drop
     
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  19. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    They sometimes drop in the FM but you gotta be fast.
     
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  20. Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    I/L Arch Mage
    This is a fairly minor nitpick but the way scrolls are distributed seems to favor FPs and Bishops over IL mages.
    Some examples of mobs that now drop valuable scrolls:

    Luster Pixie (Wand Magic Attack 30): Strong vs all magic
    Death Teddy (Wand M.att 30): Weak to Holy and Fire
    Blue Wyvern (Bow att 30): Weak to Fire, strong vs Ice
    Reindeer (Bow att 30): Weak to Poison
    Grim Phantom Watch (Shield W.att 30): Weak to Holy and Fire, completely immune to Ice.
    Blue Dragon Turtle (Shield W.att 70): Weak to Fire, strong vs Ice
    Gatekeeper (mini-boss) (Shield W.att 70): Strong vs Lightning

    Dual Birk (Topwear Luk 30): A rare W for IL mages (Strong vs Fire and Holy)
    Gigantic Spirit Viking (Topwear Str 30): Another W for ILs and Bishops as this is strong vs Fire
    Dark Yeti and Pepe (OA INT 30): Weak to Holy
    Lycanthrope (Earring INT 30): Weak to Fire, strong vs Ice
    Phantom Watch (Earring INT 30): Weak to Holy and Fire, strong vs Ice
    Birk, Thanatos (Bottom DEX 30): These are both good for ILs. Yay!

    There are probably other valuable scrolls I missed but I don't have time to check all of them right now. Hope this list illustrates my point. I think adding these gacha-locked scrolls to mobs was a good move but hopefully some of these can be added to things that ILs have an easier time farming.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

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