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Hands-on Approach to HP Washing

Discussion in 'Guides' started by kiwiz, Aug 31, 2022.

  1. kiwiz
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    kiwiz Skelegon

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    8:53 PM
    What's better than reading about how to HP Wash? It's to go through the calculating process yourself! I hope that through this attempt, you'll have better understanding on how HP Washing works if you don't already know.

    NOTE: the examples given are just examples. The intent is to help better understand the calculation process with a given scenario and may not exactly fit your situation. Learning the process should hopefully help you with calculating your own goals and to make better decisions.

    For simplicity, this approach:
    • ignores natural RNG gains, so there's likely some bonus
    • ignores bad luck, so minimum values are used
    • rounds down gains, so to have easier numbers to work with and you'll get some bonus
    • uses MP Washing to achieve the HP goal, so little to no INT gears are required but uses more AP Resets

    Some information for the calculation process:

    Constants

    Reference from the chart in https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/what-it-means-for-hp-washing-to-be-optional-on-maplelegends.26370/
    HP at Lv.160 rounded down to easy to work with numbers
    Code:
    Magician        1,900 HP
    Warrior        10,200 HP
    Archer/Thief    3,900 HP
    Gunslinger      4,300 HP
    Brawler         8,100 HP
    
    Lv.160 is at a position where you'd have gotten most of your important skills so I feel that reaching your HP goal here is a good time for you to enjoy most contents.

    You can get values for other Lvs from the chart linked above for your custom calculation. For any other Lv, you can calculate the minimum HP.
    You can find out the minimum HP you would have at any Lv, round down to an easy to work with number and proceed from there.

    Minimum MP formula for each class can be found here:
    https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/nises-hp-washing-formula-compilation.38558/

    Minimum HP:
    Code:
    Magician      [2nd Job+]       (10 x Lv) + 64
    Warrior       [Fighter]        (24 x Lv) + 472
    Warrior       [Page, Spearman] (24 x Lv) + 172
    Archer/Thief  [2nd Job+]       (20 x Lv) + 378
    Gunslinger    [2nd Job+]       (22 * Lv) + 380
    Brawler       [2nd Job+]       (22 * Lv) + 380
    

    Refer to boss HP requirements here: https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/guide-major-bosses-hp-required.41825/

    HP from Gears:
    Code:
    Ellin + T10 Rings   1,100 HP
    
    To have more freedoms with our item builds.

    HP/MP Washing
    Stat can either be: STR, DEX, INT or LUK
    Code:
    Stale AP HP Wash:                    -MP & +HP   with AP Reset
    Fresh AP HP Wash: +HP with Lv.up AP, -MP & +Stat with AP Reset
    MP Wash         : +MP with Lv.up AP, -MP & +Stat with AP Reset
    
    Reference from https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/nises-hp-washing-formula-compilation.38558/
    AP Gain/Loss (taking the minimum values)
    Code:
    Magician      -30 MP  + 6 HP
    Warrior       - 4 MP  +50 HP (fresh AP)
    Archer/Thief  -12 MP  +16 HP
    Gunslinger    -16 MP  +18 HP
    Brawler       -16 MP  +36 HP (fresh AP)
    
    Formulas
    Extra MP gained per MP Wash after accounting for AP Reset
    Code:
    floor(base_int / 10) - 2 MP
    
    This is the simplified formula which applies to all classes.

    Each class has a fixed N amount of MP + floor(base_int / 10) when we allocate fresh AP into MP and AP Reset removes N-2 MP.

    Thus the net MP gain is floor(base_int / 10) - 2 and it's possible for this process to have negative gain if base_int is less than 20.

    Extra MP gained from Lv.up
    Code:
    floor(total_int / 10)
    
    Steps
    Now the fun part.

    For this calculation example, we'll be using the Thief class with HP goal of 12,000 by Lv.160. This process will help us find out how much base INT is needed, and at which Lv do we start MP Washing to achieve the amount of extra MP needed to reach our HP goal.

    Warriors/Brawlers wash differently from other classes as they benefit more from their fresh AP being added to HP instead of stale washing, which will also be covered below.

    1. Set your HP goal
    Code:
    class: Thief
    
    goal: 12,000 HP at Lv.160
    
    2. Find out how many HP Washes are needed
    Code:
    HP to wash: 12,000 HP - (3,900 HP + 1,100 HP) = 7,000 HP to wash
    
    Wash count: 7,000 HP / 16 HP = 437.5, round up => 438 HP Washes
    
    3,900 is the rounded down clean amount of HP for Thief at Lv.160 and 1,100 is the HP provided by Ellin and T10 rings.
    1 stale AP to HP adds 16 HP for Thief. We want to know how many washes of +16 HP each do we need for 7,000 HP.

    3. Find out how much extra MP is needed
    Code:
    MP needed: 438 washes x 12 MP = 5,256 extra MP needed
    
    AP Reset takes away 12 MP from the MP pool for Thief per AP Reset. We want to know how much extra MP we need to wash 438 times.

    4. Find out how much MP gain per Lv is needed
    Code:
    MP needed per Lv over 60 Lvs (start from Lv.100):
    
    5,256 MP / 60 Lvs = 87.6, round up => 88 MP gain needed per Lv
    
    This amount is somewhat flexible.

    You can spread over more Lvs to reduce the amount of base INT required. But you'll also need to start MP Washing at earlier Lv and uses more AP Reset.

    Or spread over less Lvs which will increase the amount of base INT required. This approach is usually for character that's very late into washing and needs to gain a larger amount of MP over lesser Lvs. May need to spend large amount of AP Reset to reallocate high amount stats into INT before starting to MP Wash if you're late.

    I find 60 Lvs to be a good balance for reasons in the summary. You're free to tweak this to your preference.

    5. Find out how much base INT is needed by Lv.100
    Code:
    Add the -2 MP from MP Wash Formula for easier calculation:
    
    88 MP + (5 AP x 2 MP) = 98 MP
    
    ```
    Reverse calculate the base INT needed:
    
    (98 MP / 6) x 10 = 163.3 => 160 base INT or 170 base INT
    
    ```
    for 160 base INT:
    
    16 MP + (14 MP x 5 AP) = 86 MP per Lv
    (need 20 INT from gear and MW to reach 88 MP per Lv)
    
    ```
    for 170 base INT:
    
    17 MP + (15 MP x 5 AP) = 92 MP per Lv
    (more than 88 MP so no additional INT needed from other sources)
    
    To match the MP gain with Lv.up for easier calculation.
    1 from Lv.up, 5 from MP Washing per Lv. (Also why we match the MP gain in the previous line)
    Every 10 INT gives 1 MP.

    ```
    Summary for Thief with the goal of 12,000 HP at Lv.160
    • 160 base INT (with 20 INT from gears and MW) or 170 base INT by Lv.100.
    • MP Wash from Lv.101 to Lv.160.
    ```

    It turns out you can play Archer/Thief normally and enjoy contents until Lv.69, start adding INT and have 160 base INT by Lv.100, then MP Wash for 60 Lvs until Lv.160. You’d still get stronger every Lv with your 3rd job skills and be able to grind to Lv.160 without relying on leeching.

    12,000 HP is a respectable amount at Lv.160 and if you continue MP Washing till Lv.180, you'll be very close to having 15,000 potential HP which you’re likely to get from all the ignored natural MP gains and bonus from the rounding.

    For the next calculation example, we'll be using the Warrior class with HP goal of 18,750 by Lv.160. This process will help us find out how how much extra MP we need and some options on how to get them. Warrior has a good wash ratio (taking the minimum value) of HP:MP at 50:4, so it's actually easier to wash larger amount of HP with lesser MP, thus INT gears provides the most value for Warriors. Although Brawlers has a worse HP:MP ratio at 36:18, they wash the same way as Warriors.

    1. Set your HP goal
    Code:
    class: Warrior
    
    goal: 18,750 HP at Lv.160
    
    18,750 HP becomes 30,000 HP after Hyper Body.

    2. Find out how many HP Washes are needed
    Code:
    HP to wash: 18,750 HP - (10,200 HP + 1,100 HP) = 7,450 HP to wash
    
    Wash count: 7,450 HP / 50 HP = 149, round up => 150 HP washes
    
    10,200 is the rounded down clean amount of HP for Warrior at Lv.160 and 1,100 is the HP provided by Ellin and T10 rings.
    1 fresh AP to HP adds 50-54 HP for Warrior, but we use the minimum value to ignore bad luck. You'll on average get 2 bonus HP per wash. We want to know how many washes of +50 HP each do we need for 7,450 HP.

    3. Find out how much extra MP is needed
    Code:
    MP needed: 150 washes x 4 MP = 600 extra MP needed
    
    AP Reset takes away 4 MP from the MP pool for Warrior per AP Reset. We want to know how much extra MP we need to wash 150 times.

    4. Find out when to start using fresh AP to HP
    Code:
    150 AP / 5 AP per Lv = 30 Lvs of fresh AP
    
    Lv.160 - 30 Lvs of fresh AP = Start adding HP with fresh AP after Lv.130
    
    5. Find out how much MP gain per Lv needed
    Code:
    Some options to consider:
    
    MP needed per Lv over 80 Lvs (start from Lv.50):
    
    600 MP / 80 Lvs = 7.5, round up => 8 MP per Lv
    
    ```
    MP needed per Lv over 60 Lvs (start from Lv.70):
    
    600 MP / 60 Lvs = 10 MP per Lv
    
    ```
    MP needed per Lv over 40 Lvs (start from Lv.90):
    
    600 MP / 40 Lvs = 15 MP per Lv
    
    ```
    MP needed per Lv over 20 Lvs (start from Lv.110):
    
    600 MP / 20 Lvs = 30 MP per Lv
    

    We explore 2 options that will achieve similar result.

    6a. No MP Wash: find out how much total INT needed by Lv.50
    Code:
    8 MP x 10 = 80 total INT from base INT, gear INT and MW
    
    Every 10 INT gives 1 MP.

    6b. With MP Wash: find out how much base INT needed by Lv.110
    Code:
    Add the -2 MP from MP Wash Formula for easier calculation:
    
    30 MP + (5 AP x 2 MP) = 40 MP
    
    ```
    Reverse calculate the base INT needed:
    
    (40 MP / 6) x 10 = 66.7 => 60 base INT or 70 base INT
    
    ```
    for 60 base INT:
    
    6 MP + (4 MP x 5 AP) = 26 MP per Lv
    (need 40 INT from gear and MW to reach 30 MP per Lv)
    
    ```
    for 70 base INT:
    
    7 MP + (5 MP x 5 AP) = 32 MP per Lv
    (more than 30 MP so no additional INT needed from other sources)
    
    To match the MP gain with Lv.up for easier calculation.
    1 from Lv.up, 5 from MP Washing per Lv. (Also why we match the MP gain in the previous line)
    Every 10 INT gives 1 MP.

    ```
    Summary for Warrior with the goal of 18,750 HP at Lv.160

    6a. no MP Wash:
    • Lv.up with 80 total INT from Lv.50 - Lv.160.
    • Fresh HP Wash from Lv.131 - Lv.160.

    6b. with MP Wash:
    • 60 base INT (with 40 INT from gears and MW) or 70 base INT by Lv.110.
    • MP Wash from Lv.111 to Lv.130.
    • Fresh HP Wash from Lv.131 - Lv.160.
    ```

    With these 2 examples, hope you'll be able plan your HP Washing journey and good luck! :yay:


    OPTIONAL READ:
    (These are not the absolute way to wash. Feel free to derive your own.)

    Here's one option for class Thief with the goal of 20,000 HP at Lv.180 as suggested by Ayderac:
    Code:
    14,500 HP to wash
    
    907 HP washes
    
    10,875 extra MP needed
    
    109 MP per Lv over 100 Lvs (start at Lv.80)
    
    200 base INT: 20 + (18 x 5) = 110 MP per Lv
    
    Summary:
    • 200 base INT by Lv.80. (start adding INT at Lv.41)
    • MP Wash from Lv.81 to Lv.180.

    You should still be able to grind okay with 200 base INT. But what about Thief with the goal of 30,000 HP at Lv.180?
    Code:
    24,500 HP to wash
    
    1,532 HP washes
    
    18,384 extra MP needed
    
    154 MP per Lv over 120 Lvs (start at Lv.60)
    
    280 base INT: 28 + (26 x 5) = 158 MP per Lv
    
    Summary:
    • 280 base INT by Lv.60. (start adding INT at Lv.4)
    • MP Wash from Lv.61 to Lv.180.
    Now we've created a garbage that cannot grind on its own anymore at the early Lvs.

    We can try progressive MP washing so at least we get to function at the early Lvs, by using AP Reset into base INT as we MP wash. Every 10 base INT gives you additional 6 MP per Lv, which happens every 2 Lv.
    Sum of Arithmetic Sequence Formula
    Code:
    S = n / 2 (a + L)
    
    where:
    
    S  is the sum of the arithmetic sequence
    a  is the first term
    n  is the total number of terms in the sequence
    L  is the last term of the sequence
    
    If we start MP washing with 140 base INT and stops at 220 base INT for example:
    Code:
    (220 - 140) / 5 INT per Lv = Add INT over 16 Lvs
    
    additional MP for every 2 Lvs: (16 Lvs / 2) - 1 = 7
    (extra MP gained at 150, 160, 170, 180, 190, 200, 210 - so 7 times not counting 220 as our last wash brought us to this value)
    
    S = 7 / 2 (1 + 7)
    S = 28
    
    So, 28 x (2 x 6 MP) = 336 extra MP gained over 16 Lvs with progressive MP wash,
    
    on top of the starting 140 base INT:
    
    [ 14 + (12 x 5) ] x 16 Lvs = 1,184 MP
    
    ```
    Progressive MP washing from 140 base INT to 220 base INT over 16 Lvs:
    
    1,184 MP + 336 MP = 1,520 MP total
    
    If we were to calculate progressive MP Washing manually, given 50 base INT and MP Wash from Lv.11-20:
    Code:
    50 base INT for Lv.11-12:
    
    [ 5 + (3 x 5) ] x 2 Lvs = 40 MP
    
    ```
    60 base INT for Lv.13-14:
    
    [ 6 + (4 x 5) ] x 2 Lvs = 52 MP
    
    ```
    70 base INT for Lv.15-16:
    
    [ 7 + (5 x 5) ] x 2 Lvs = 64 MP
    
    ```
    80 base INT for Lv.17-18:
    
    [ 8 + (6 x 5) ] x 2 Lvs = 76 MP
    
    ```
    90 base INT for Lv.19-20:
    
    [ 9 + (7 x 5) ] x 2 Lvs = 88 MP
    
    ```
    Total MP:
    
    40 + 52 + 64 + 76 + 88 = 320 MP
    
    Now we use the above formula method:
    Code:
    50 base INT for 10 Lvs:
    
    [ 5 + (3 x 5) ] x 10 Lvs = 200 MP
    
    ```
    Progressive MP gained over 10 Lvs:
    
    [ 4 / 2 x (1 + 4) ] x (2 x 6 MP) = 120 MP
    
    ```
    Total MP:
    
    200 + 120 = 320 MP
    
    Code:
    24,500 HP to wash
    
    1,532 HP washes
    
    18,384 extra MP needed
    
    MP wash 112 Lvs (start at Lv.68)
    
    ```
    100 base INT at Lv.68 for 36 Lvs:
    
    [ 10 + (8 x 5) ] x 36 Lvs = 1,800 MP
    
    ```
    Progressive MP gained over 36 Lvs:
    
    [ 17 / 2 x (1 + 17) ] x (2 x 6 MP) = 1,836 MP
    
    ```
    320 base INT at Lv.104 for 76 Lvs:
    
    [ 32 + (30 x 5) ] x 76 Lvs = 13,832 MP
    
    ```
    80 INT from gears and MW at Lv.50 for 130 Lvs:
    
    8 MP x 130 Lvs = 1,040 MP
    
    ```
    Total extra MP:
    
    1,800 + 1,836 + 13,832 + 1,040 = 18,508 MP
    
    Summary:
    • 80 additional INT from gears and MW by Lv.50.
    • 100 base INT by Lv.68. (start adding INT at Lv.48)
    • MP Wash progressively from Lv.69 to Lv.104, AP Reset MP to INT.
    • 320 base INT by Lv.104.
    • MP Wash from Lv.105 to Lv.180
    You should be able to somewhat enjoy low Lv contents until 3rd job. At this point I recommend to just leech from Lv.75 as leeching becomes much more efficient.

    31 AUG 2022 - version 1.0
    31 AUG 2022 - minor edits
    31 AUG 2022 - added reference link to boss HP requirement
    01 SEP 2022 - added Thief 20k & 30k HP by Lv.180
    01 SEP 2022 - adjusted Thief 30k HP by Lv.180 to be less INT gears reliance
    01 SEP 2022 - corrected progressive MP Wash calculation
    01 SEP 2022 - added simpler example for progressive MP Wash
    01 SEP 2022 - added some notes at the top
    29 SEP 2022 - added minimum MP formulas
    30 SEP 2022 - should be minimum HP formulas, not MP :x
    06 OCT 2023 - changed to “5 AP” per level instead of the misleading “5 Lvs”
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2023
    • Great Work Great Work x 9
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  2. Ayderac
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    Ayderac Pink Teddy

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    12:53 PM
    Ayderac
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    Very well structured and easy to read guide. Good job!

    One suggestion I could see others enjoy (especially newer players) is to add a PB surviving + 30k hp attacker like a NL
     
  3. OP
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    kiwiz
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    kiwiz Skelegon

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    Thanks! I've added a link for reference to boss HP requirement.

    Washing a NL to 20k or 30k HP at Lv.180 for PB can be an assignment for the new players. Good luck peeps! ;)
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
  4. OP
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    kiwiz
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    kiwiz Skelegon

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    Added thief 20k and 30k HP at Lv.180 options.

    After calculating for 30k to be plausible at the early levels, I suggest to just go for the typical INTlord build and buy leech all the way to save some brain cells. :vomit:
     
  5. Esmo
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    Esmo Pac Pinky

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    mp wash till lv 180? the goal is 135 so you know,you can actually play the game
     
  6. OP
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    kiwiz
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    kiwiz Skelegon

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    Goal of what at 135?

    If you start MP washing progressively at Lv.10 with 50 base INT to Lv.135:
    Code:
    50 base INT for 125 Lvs:
    
    [ 5 + (3 x 5) ] x 125 Lvs = 2,500 MP
    
    ```
    Progressive MP gained over 125 Lvs:
    
    [ 61 / 2 x (1 + 61) ] x (2 x 6 MP) = 22,692 MP
    
    ```
    Total extra MP:
    
    2,500 + 22,692 = 25,192 MP
    
    ```
    Total washable HP (assuming thief -12 MP)
    
    (25,192 / 12) x 16 HP = ~33,584 HP
    
    EDIT: corrected calculation (I hope it's correct :dead:)
     
  7. Esmo
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    Esmo Pac Pinky

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    by lv 135 u can gain exp from killing Zakum and krex
     
    • Creative Creative x 2
  8. OP
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    kiwiz
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    kiwiz Skelegon

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    Yeah sure, you can set your HP goal at Lv.135-140 and do the calculation from there.
     
  9. Esmo
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    Esmo Pac Pinky

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    the point is my guy is that nobody will take u to Zakum or krex with 300base int,it’s a big no from me,that’s why u need to have the required mp for washing by lv 135
     
  10. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    should instead be something like min NX = fresh wash + stale wash + mp wash + washout and when given some bounds such as target hp/mp, a washout level, and to a lesser extent int gears/mw, there's an efficient base int and level to start mp washing to minimize APR and therefore NX usage. From that, there's no need to progressively mp wash until very high levels of int. would also recommend thinking of MP as a currency & mp wash one AP at a time if adding into int (+ mp, -mp, +int) as there are times you can get more mp per level.

    also pirate APR gain/loss for stale washing is 18/18 instead of 16/18

    i once went to 12 man ht with 480 base int and it wasn't too bad - hyperwashing isnt really for the unfunded
     
  11. JKNS
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    JKNS Selkie Jr.

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    Hero, Dark Knight, F/P Arch Mage, I/L Arch Mage, Bishop, Night Lord
    I think stressing playing normally early and waiting to MP Wash isn't ideal. Bossing with base INT isn't a hard no on the server (you regularly see 140-200 base INT range chars doing Zak, Krex, CWK, and even HT), but hosts have to make accommodations for those who are saturated with 300+ base INT at Level 135, which is when Zakum, Krexel, Scarlion/Targa, and 1-party CWKPQ runs open up as viable avenues to gain EXP. Adding INT and beginning the MP Wash process earlier does hurt early game comfort, and losing levels worth of damage is more noticeable at earlier levels, but a lot of that end can be made up through quests when that is still a good way to level, while the opposite requires keeping damage lower for longer and sinking costs into things like Apples to compensate for the 20-30 levels of missing damage compared to a moderate INT character, let alone a washed out one at 135 (where we're talking closer to 60 levels if we're comparing a 300 base INT to a 4).

    Also, Dark Knights should have their own sub-section detailing 18,750 HP by 135: even with Zerk changes, you have more margin to play with risk-reward the earlier you reach 30k with HB. Just because the skill scales at all HP ranges now doesn't mean players shouldn't try to reach max HP once the majority of entry-level bossing opens up, especially when it's not that difficult to reach the number by 135 anyway.
     
  12. Esmo
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    Esmo Pac Pinky

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    oh yes 12 Runners, try out the same but as 6 or even cwk as 4 or 3 your teammates will turn into salt piles
     
  13. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    yep although by principle it (6 man ht, 4 man cwk) should never happen to begin with as no self respecting run/player would bring such a brick.
     
  14. OP
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    kiwiz
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    kiwiz Skelegon

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    This guide is meant to help you derive the amount of INT you need to invest given a HP goal and Lv. Weather it's efficient or not it's up to your situation with your NX and INT gears.

    Those are just examples to help people understand the process and are a few out of the hundreds and thousands of possibilities you can path out for your washing journey.

    How the goal affects your character's viability at whichever stages is your own decision. You can still use the same approach to work your numbers out if you choose to add INT from the start to achieve your goal earlier and this process can help you find out how.


    Hmm, I referenced from https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/nises-hp-washing-formula-compilation.38558/
    Code:
    HP Gained from Stale AP: 18 hp
    MP Lost from AP Resetting: -16 mp
    
    Because we have players saying you can't have fun starting with archer/thief without adding INT from the start, or you have to invest in a bunch of INT gears when you don't really have to. So I'm showing that it is possible to play normally early and still achieve a decent amount of HP, but this is not what this guide is telling you to aim for.
     
  15. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    jk you're right - i just remembered there was something different on pirates

    edit: even if my pirate numbers above are wrong, pirate is a special case where fresh ap is 16-20 hp and stale is 18 hp. it's less practical on the grand scheme of things but the minimum is actually 16 from fresh wash
     
  16. fael
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    fael Nightshadow

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    if you want to have 12k hp on ur thief you should wait for the challenge system
     
  17. Palladino
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    Palladino Master Chronos

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    You can convert your excess mp into hp using ap resets.
     
  18. Palladino
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    Palladino Master Chronos

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    You can start as soon as you have excess mp. If you leave one fresh ap in the hp/mp pool, you can stale hp wash (use ap reset to -mp +hp) as many times as you like, given that you have enough extra mp to wash with.
     
  19. brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    Aug 29, 2021
    8:53 PM
    You can reset spare mp into hp anytime, as long as you have 1 ap in the hp/mp pool. There is no need to wait for any level.
     
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  20. OP
    OP
    kiwiz
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    kiwiz Skelegon

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    May 7, 2018
    8:53 PM
    Make sure fresh ap goes into +mp, which is what you are doing, so that’s fine.

    You are not limited by the number of -mp to +hp. You can ap reset -mp, +hp until your mp cannot go any lower than the minimum mp, while having at least 1 ap in the hp/mp pool.

    Also the total ap resets would be 300 for -mp, +luk (60 levels x 5) and 166 for -int, +luk (170 base int). The rest goes into -mp, +hp depending on how much you are washing or is able to wash.
     

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