PB accountability

Thank you for clarifying but the idea that certain banks weren't "transparent" about things that could've been easily answered if literally anyone asked is kind of my point in saying things like this easily stain a reputation. If you lend gear to somebody for a HT run, but they d.c'ed and couldn't run but they returned your gear right after the run anyway and didn't clarify they missed it -- is it their fault for not clarifying or should the lender have asked specifics if they needed to know?

Is there any possibility in the future all mass grief reports be moved to a public forum thread? I suggest this because considering this sort of report affects the MASS, hence termed Mass Grief, it is just appropriate to have the mass understand the whole story to be educated in where they should place their mesos. One person should not be able to damage the rep and potential monetary losses of many others. Let's say the next bank that gets reported, the audit you do comes out clear, that bank's rep still suffers with no repercussions to original reporter? And what about the players that decide due to this they don't feel their mesos are safe and withdraws and lose an incredible amount of tax mesos over something they would probably didn't have to do and appreciate if they had access to the conversations between Staff and Bank Owners and Original Reporter?

And I understand the reason we do not do public reports in general is due to potentials of witch hunting, fear of retailiation, etc. but that makes sense if the only parties involved are just the individuals. We'd need the mass to speak out if we want to consider something mass grief, no?

 

I think it has to be treated as if talking to a player. Them "flipping the switch" is essentially GM abuse and should be reportable.

I agree with you but what is your proposed solution? I don't think there's any reasonable way to account for them besides banning them from hosting PB which I don't think is fair. The point you are raising is that being a staff member and playing the same game is inherently a conflict of interest but there's no way to account for that besides trusting staff and reporting any activity that you find suspicious (which in all honesty I think should have been done in the CS case you brought up in the original post and still should be reported retroactively if there still exists the evidence to support that).

 

Note: This post is NOT associated with the staff team. It is a personal reply as "mard" the player.

I think a timeline might be useful for the events that happened this week, and so I’d like to clear the air. Earlier this week, Nightz sent me a message on discord a few days ago which prompted me to look into Akash’s PB bank because there were some items not being marked as untaxed when they should have been marked as taxed. Because all runners agree to a clear policy that is listed in the discord server before running on this PB run but this was not mentioned in the policy, I asked for clarification in Akash’s PB server why he’s doing this as the bank owner, to which Akash then gave his reasoning and corrected the bank transactions. None of this happened as part of a staff investigation. Nightz had only realized this because he bought an MW30 book from the run which shouldn't have been taxed, after which he then asked me to check the policy to see if this was mentioned. Because it wasn’t, we felt it was appropriate to ask in Akash’s PB discord server as I felt all of the runners on the run should have known what was happening, and I had my own splits at stake in the bank.

I then looked into the Beaters PB banks (again, as a player/runner, and not as a representative of staff), as they were the other banks that I had access to and had personal stakes involved, since I’ve ran with and have splits from these runs. After looking at the bank, I realized that there are similar tax-related issues and similarly asked the hosts for clarification in the respective PB servers, since to my knowledge this was never communicated to me as a runner. Again, this wasn’t part of a staff investigation, as it was prompted out of my own curiosity as a runner about whether my splits were being mishandled.

Regarding the Pasta bank, that was unrelated to either me or Nightz and was reported to staff. As a result, an official staff investigation occurred in relation to that particular bank.

I fully acknowledge that things could have been communicated better. In hopes of trying to help the respective PB runs I may have communicated things in a way that caused concern. I apologize if my actions seemed malicious even if I didn't mean for them to come across that way.

 

Even then, what is the standard on public callouts? When can they be done and when can they not.



This is what I understood to be the standard. It's not about communicating better, because previous to this incident it seemed to be the case that no communication at all is what was needed, you either confront the player to solve this privately or you report it.

Plus I would say instruction on how to avoid misinterpretation of the role you're playing when you interact on Discord is needed. One thing is to say your interests in the run were involved and as such you were worried for them. Another is to make a callout and say you're doing this because the runners (in general) and the public have a right to know. Especially when your official role is to protect the public's interest.

 

J> staff as auditor. Can provide accounting experience.

 

We have never received an official report from you or anyone else about this particular matter. Please correct me if this is wrong. If you would be so kind as to file an official abuse report, it will be investigated thoroughly.

Staff members have been kicked in the past for breaching NDA, abusing power, amongst other things. We take these things very seriously. I understand it's a "matter of public interest", which I agree with, so if you would actually like anything to happen and have us follow up, I strongly encourage you to file an official report.

Thanks!

 

Can we get a staff reply on this? So just to clarify from the staff's perspective, mard's actions were not a "public accusation" correct? I just want to be clear on this.

 

This was already addressed in mard's response. His internal investigations into other banks were self-led, but the announcements made to all PB discords with banks was a decision made by staff. So no, it wouldn't be public accusation.

 

I don't quite think Mard said this as it would totally contradict his main point.

 

He says in his post that none of his actions were staff decisions. So no, it was not a a decision made by staff. The only official staff investigation was the audit of Pasta's bank due to a forum report.

 

See below:

 

Ah misread the interaction between Mard and Nightz with Mard as player and Nightz as staff.

You’re right. This is confusing. I need a Jesscapades play script to make sense of all these role switches.

 

The general harrasment rule technically only covers In game and forums. This might be viewed as a loophole of some sort but technically you can't really call this a violation of any sort. Unless there was some public comment on the official discord, ingame or the forums it seems like it can't really be considered a public accusation.

I also don't think legends staff can or should punish anything harrasment related commented on a private player discord since at that point it's a slippery slope.

As an extra regardless of any kind of auditing been done or not, I think it's very obvious that anything that benefits ANYONE within a banking system that isn't stipulated within what was agreed upon can't be considered gods work and it's valid to be concerned for those involved. It does seem like the involved parties deserve to know. Clearly i don't know the full context here but wanted to share my thoughts.

 

Yeah on multiple occasions Staff has dealt with issues going on in Discord.

 

If that's something they do it should definitely be clarified within the ToS. That's definitely incorrect. It is no where said that you can't freely express your thoughts on an unofficial server.

 

This is actually incorrect. It covers all Discord servers and even DMs.

 

I see, in that case it does seem like a straight calling out of a person for something would be "public accusation" but it begs the question on what was the wording and is it really "public" if only the involved parties were present during the issue? I guess that's up to debate.

Again this is insider i don't have precise knowledge about but i feel like the ToS could use further clarification to avoid technicalities in scenarios like this.